Dr. Kohl and other experts,
Speaking candidly, I consider myself an 'alpha' male. I have an athletic build, have usually had an abundance of sexual partners throughout life, popular, successful, etc... I attribute most of these qualities to genetics and environment. My dad exhibited the same characteristics in his lifetime. A couple of questions:

Where can I find reputable research demographically/categorically comparing the amount and variety of pheromones secreted?

In your opinion, would you suggest alpha males steer clear of pheromones? The pheromone 'bomb' suggests this is possible.


I've got a fairly solid background in the sciences, and anything I don't understand I can take to my professors. Speak freely!

Recent research suggests that alphas are both high in testosterone and have a lower cortisol response to stress, so levels of both may need to be considered with regard to the amount and variety of pheromones secreted.

"The present studies provide the first empirical support for the claim that the neuroendocrine reproductive (HPG) and stress (HPA) axes interact to regulate dominance."
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...85351ebac0

Alpha males may still benefit from adding chemicals that signal high testosterone and low cortisol. Sometime soon I plan to detail why -- a decade ago -- the mixture in Scent of Eros for men was designed to do just that, with added behavioral affect due to the fragrance.

Meanwhile, there is little known about how adrenal hormone production is regulated (e.g., as compared to what is known about gonadal hormone production). A colleague once explained that this was because "normal" levels for adrenal hormones were not established early on, as they were for the gonadal steroids.

James V. Kohl
http://www.pheromones.com

(09-21-2010 9:13 AM)21p Wrote:  Dr. Kohl and other experts,
Speaking candidly, I consider myself an 'alpha' male. I have an athletic build, have usually had an abundance of sexual partners throughout life, popular, successful, etc... I attribute most of these qualities to genetics and environment. My dad exhibited the same characteristics in his lifetime. A couple of questions:

Where can I find reputable research demographically/categorically comparing the amount and variety of pheromones secreted?

In your opinion, would you suggest alpha males steer clear of pheromones? The pheromone 'bomb' suggests this is possible.


I've got a fairly solid background in the sciences, and anything I don't understand I can take to my professors. Speak freely!

Hmm, maybe alpha males would benefit more from socially geared blends?

All males benefit from socially geared blends. It's silly and shameful that most marketers focus so much on getting more sex. Adding the urine-like scent of androstenone because it's linked to sex in pigs is one example of this. Try to find any information on a positive effect of androstenone on women, and you may see why a scientific approach should trump marketing (even when it typically does not).

James V. Kohl
http://www.pheromones.com

(09-27-2010 1:26 PM)Beccah1 Wrote:  Hmm, maybe alpha males would benefit more from socially geared blends?

I agree, they act like people who are interested in pheromones are just sex deprived losers! (Well not the reputable ones) But yeah they could advertise the merits of social 'mones a bit more, lol.

(09-27-2010 3:11 PM)jvkohl Wrote:  All males benefit from socially geared blends. It's silly and shameful that most marketers focus so much on getting more sex. Adding the urine-like scent of androstenone because it's linked to sex in pigs is one example of this. Try to find any information on a positive effect of androstenone on women, and you may see why a scientific approach should trump marketing (even when it typically does not).

James V. Kohl
http://www.pheromones.com

I think thats a big mistake men make when buying pheromones and its because many formulators of pheromone products dont understand them or human nature.

You really cant separate the "human" from his/her biology at least not on a physical level. Androstenone is a sex pheromone in ways but it doesn't create a sexual response by itself. I consider it more of a masculine signal really. Humans dont secrete just one pheromone at a time there is a whole chemical reaction going on. I think to create a sexual signal you need to use a combination of things just like the natural body does.

The social pheromones are what pushes a masculine pheromone into a sexual signal. Masculinity in itself may be attractive but its not sexual.

I always tell the guys when I am coaching them to lay off the highly masculine pheromones and use the socials more. They always respond with I am social enough or I dont want a social response. They dont get it.

I dont care how masculine a signal your sending. You could be the most masculine alpha male in the world but it has nothing to do with the amount of sex you will have. You have to be able to signal comfort security connection and ease before women will react sexually and you can only get those signals from social type mones.

Tisha

Pheromones have unconscious affects on behavior. If someone detects the chemical, like androstenone, the affect is going to come from conscious perception and typically be a negative response (e.g., because androstenone smells urinous). It won't be a pheromonal affect. Tisha is correct about the need to consider what's in the mixture of pheromones, though I can't imagine conscious perception of androstenone odor to be pleasant even when the mixture contains a musky smelling androstenol. I've used the example of steroid-enhanced body builders to help others understand why the appearance of masculinity is not the only consideration. Many of those who compete with body-building look grotesque. Of course, they appeal to some women, but typically they do not appeal to most women. In the same way, adding androstenone would predictably make you appeal to fewer women.

James V. Kohl
http://www.pheromones.com

(09-28-2010 5:34 AM)Tisha Wrote:  I think thats a big mistake men make when buying pheromones and its because many formulators of pheromone products dont understand them or human nature.

You really cant separate the "human" from his/her biology at least not on a physical level. Androstenone is a sex pheromone in ways but it doesn't create a sexual response by itself. I consider it more of a masculine signal really. Humans dont secrete just one pheromone at a time there is a whole chemical reaction going on. I think to create a sexual signal you need to use a combination of things just like the natural body does.

The social pheromones are what pushes a masculine pheromone into a sexual signal. Masculinity in itself may be attractive but its not sexual.

I always tell the guys when I am coaching them to lay off the highly masculine pheromones and use the socials more. They always respond with I am social enough or I dont want a social response. They dont get it.

I dont care how masculine a signal your sending. You could be the most masculine alpha male in the world but it has nothing to do with the amount of sex you will have. You have to be able to signal comfort security connection and ease before women will react sexually and you can only get those signals from social type mones.

Tisha

You have to take into consideration as well that everyone doesn't perceive or process scent in the same way. Androstenone smells like musky male to me not like urine but I am aware that to most men and some women it smells like piss. However there are plenty of women who do like the smell of it.

http://www.senseofsmell.org/

According to the sense of smell institute no two people perceive scent the same way. We all process it different. I think cycles play a important role as well whether a women likes the smell of any pheromone really. Oddly opposite to study results, I notice I cant stand Alpha Androstenol during my period because it smells like someone stuffed my head in a dirty stinky gym locker but the rest of the month its just a mild stink. I tested this out on my friend inadvertently once. I had on Alpha Androstenol and she asked me if I smelled feet and I asked her if she had her period. She did LOL. She still reacted well to it though. I know thats not conclusive proof or anything but its interesting. During ovulation I can pick up on the smell of Androstenone easier then during my period. It seems more musty smelling but still not like piss. More acidic though. I realize this is just my response and not everyone's.

I think the signal has little to do with the actual scent and more to do with the chemical reaction we have to the actual molecule and the emotion it triggers.

SOI also indicated that as we age our sense of smell changes and maybe this is why older women 30 and up tend to like the smell of Androstenone more then younger females.

I think there are a lot of other things we need to factor in and that no one product can work for every individual. Unfortunately that leaves consumers having to try things out to see what works best for them until there is more focused data on what works and why. Mimicking nature is not a easy task.

Quote:Pheromones have unconscious affects on behavior. If someone detects the chemical, like androstenone, the affect is going to come from conscious perception and typically be a negative response (e.g., because androstenone smells urinous). It won't be a pheromonal affect. Tisha is correct about the need to consider what's in the mixture of pheromones, though I can't imagine conscious perception of androstenone odor to be pleasant even when the mixture contains a musky smelling androstenol. I've used the example of steroid-enhanced body builders to help others understand why the appearance of masculinity is not the only consideration. Many of those who compete with body-building look grotesque. Of course, they appeal to some women, but typically they do not appeal to most women. In the same way, adding androstenone would predictably make you appeal to fewer women.

While I agree with Tisha about the additional considerations she asserts, my overall understanding is more research based (e.g., on the published report that ovulatory women find androstenone less aversive). No published work that I know of states that any women find androstenone to be other than aversive, although I can concede that there is anecdotal information that suggests some women like its odor.

James V. Kohl
http://www.pheromones.com

(09-28-2010 9:07 AM)Tisha Wrote:  You have to take into consideration as well that everyone doesn't perceive or process scent in the same way. Androstenone smells like musky male to me not like urine but I am aware that to most men and some women it smells like piss. However there are plenty of women who do like the smell of it.

http://www.senseofsmell.org/

According to the sense of smell institute no two people perceive scent the same way. We all process it different. I think cycles play a important role as well whether a women likes the smell of any pheromone really. Oddly opposite to study results, I notice I cant stand Alpha Androstenol during my period because it smells like someone stuffed my head in a dirty stinky gym locker but the rest of the month its just a mild stink. I tested this out on my friend inadvertently once. I had on Alpha Androstenol and she asked me if I smelled feet and I asked her if she had her period. She did LOL. She still reacted well to it though. I know thats not conclusive proof or anything but its interesting. During ovulation I can pick up on the smell of Androstenone easier then during my period. It seems more musty smelling but still not like piss. More acidic though. I realize this is just my response and not everyone's.

I think the signal has little to do with the actual scent and more to do with the chemical reaction we have to the actual molecule and the emotion it triggers.

SOI also indicated that as we age our sense of smell changes and maybe this is why older women 30 and up tend to like the smell of Androstenone more then younger females.

I think there are a lot of other things we need to factor in and that no one product can work for every individual. Unfortunately that leaves consumers having to try things out to see what works best for them until there is more focused data on what works and why. Mimicking nature is not a easy task.

Very interesting replies, thanks for the feedback. Had a feeling you couldn't just slap on some "a314" and go get 'em, hahaha... Most of the threads are looking for effects, not causes, which lead to the 'one size fits all' approach. I will likely spend most of my time looking through these research threads instead of the main board.

I have a few more questions.

The essential and synthetic oils of colognes are structurally similar (in terms of reactivity) to some pheromones I googled. Many consist of aromatic and non aromatic ketones, most are lipid soluble. The lipid solubility of these compounds indicates they function in part by mixing with oil secretions of the skin, which makes the smell last longer. What types of physiological effects occur when a synthetic cologne molecule like galoxodine binds to a smell receptor in the nose? Where can I find information about olfactory reactions that bind aerosol molecules and the limbic response/secretion of sex hormones? I plan to talk to my biochemistry prof in the next couple of days to find out some more information.