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Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - Printable Version +- Pheromone Reviews - Real People - Real Reviews (http://pherotruth.com) +-- Forum: Forums (/Forum-Forums) +--- Forum: Single Molecules (/Forum-Single-Molecules) +--- Thread: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules (/Thread-Page-394-A-comprehensive-guide-for-mixing-molecules) |
Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - Fly So Hi - 02-27-2012 6:07 PM Hello pherotruthers! This is a long and boring post, so only read it if you need it. Thought I would write a comprehensive guide for those who want to dissolve their molecules or make their own mixes. We're going to broach the dilution of one single molecule first. We need three basic materials:
Those are the basic components in any pheromone blend. Of course, essential oils or scents can be added as well. You can mix everything using a 1ml syringe for the concentrate and two 5ml syringes: one for the fixative, one for the alcohol. It is very useful if you have a micropipette, especially if you're going to be working with dosages on the nanogram (nG) scale. When working with micropipette, you must use one tip to each component. So... ![]() To avoid cross contamination, the ideal is to use one syringe per component, be it DPG, alcohol, molecule, essence, or other. You can buy packs of ten 1ml syringes in drug stores, and label them with the component names they were used for, so you can reuse them. They're generally used by people with diabetes to apply insulin. To work with the DPG, use a 5 ml syringe, once the liquid is thicker and needs a larger needle to be sucked in. Note: If you think one of the syringes or other pieces of equipment were contaminated or are dirty in any way, boil water and dive the equipment into it for a few minutes. You can also use a pressure cooker to make it closer to the real autoclaving process. If you want to use volumetric flasks, beakers and graduated cylinders, it's great. Just remember you can mix all the components in the bottle they will go in. It's also a good idea to use gloves and a mask. ![]() Has no money for a micropipette, must be a Weasley. Okay, so first we need to decide how much mass of a molecule (M) we want to dispense per application. That's the dosage in micrograms per spray, or dabs, or whatever. The amount of concentrate that must be used for the desired dosage to be dispensed can be determined through the following equation: ![]() Or put more readable: ![]() Vc "“ Volume of concentrate in microlitres. M "“ Mass of molecules (the desired dosage per spray) in micrograms. Va "“ Volume of application (drop, spray, dab or inch) in microliters. As a rule of thumb, one dab is 20 μl, one drop is 50 μl and one spray is 130 μl. Vb "“ Volume of total bottle content (volume of the carrier [alcohol, oil, silicone] plus fixative [DPG, silicone] plus the concentrates) in microlitres. K "“ Concentration of concentrate, in milligrams per millilitre. So we'll dilute some alpha-androsterone, into a spray bottle type. The total amount of liquid inside the bottle is 15 ml, so Vb=15000. We want a dosage (M) of 1,25 mcg/spray. My concentrate is diluted in alcohol, at 2mg/ml concentration (K). A spray can vary from 80 to 140 μl, or 0.08 to 0.14 ml. For this example, assume 1 spray (Va) = 140 μl. ![]() Using combinatorial proof: ![]() Okay. So we're going to need 67 μl of concentrate to dispense the intended dosage. We are aiming for 15ml of total content. 10% or 1,5ml of it is fixative. 0.67 of it is the actual concentrate. So we take 15ml minus 1,5ml minus 0.67ml and we have 12.83, the volume of alcohol we need to complete the process. ![]() Vr "“ Volume of carrier. Vb "“ Volume of total bottle content. Vf "“ Total volume of fixative, in millilitre. Vc "“ Volume of concentrate. In case you are mixing a blend, calculate how much concentrate you're going to need for each molecule and sum them up to use as Vc before using the above equation. The rest is quite simple now. Just add everything together and shake the bottle. Label it with component name and dosage per spray, or dab, or inch, whatever you"˜ve chosen your dosage method to be. To minimise evaporation of components, it is best to add into the bottle the fixative first, then the carrier, then the concentrate. Let it rest for a day in a cool, dark place. Sucking the DPG should be quite hard at first, because it is really thick. But you'll soon get used to it. (Wait, that could've come out wrong...) EDIT: Corrected misspelled measures and formulas. RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - Fly So Hi - 03-06-2012 7:52 PM I corrected misspelled measures and formulas in the post above. I'm just bumping it up in case anyone have read this and got confused. Tks RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - alexhaj - 06-13-2012 9:23 AM I don't have DPG, what are fixers can I use? What is the purpose of a fixer? What kind of alcohol (EtOH or IsoPropOH)? Is there any water? RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - zerosix85 - 06-13-2012 12:25 PM A fixative controls the rate at which the molecules will fly off your body. Without a fixative, you may as well kiss your money goodbye. Also, EtOH is the preferable alcohol to use even though you can use something weaker. RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - Fly So Hi - 06-13-2012 11:02 PM (06-13-2012 12:25 PM)zerosix85 Wrote: A fixative controls the rate at which the molecules will fly off your body. Without a fixative, you may as well kiss your money goodbye. Indeed! What I've read about using molecules without fixative is that they'll last half an hour at the most. I believe you would have a "bullet" diffusion pattern. Alas, my experience in this particular matter is limited. (06-13-2012 12:25 PM)zerosix85 Wrote: Also, EtOH is the preferable alcohol to use even though you can use something weaker. Didn't know that. Why so? RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - Fly So Hi - 06-13-2012 11:06 PM (06-13-2012 9:23 AM)alexhaj Wrote: I don't have DPG, what are fixers can I use? I believe our member dbot uses fractionated coconut oil (FCO) with great success! I'm not aware of any water based solutions. Your other questions were answered above by zerosix. RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - zerosix85 - 06-14-2012 2:06 AM (06-13-2012 11:02 PM)Fly So Hi Wrote: Didn't know that. Why so? Forgive me for posting in haste. Perfumer's alcohol is the to-go alcohol that you would want to go to. Ethanol and lower grade alcohol is acceptable also. I know Alcohol is nice in getting the molecules to evaporate quicker for a punchy effect but I still prefer oil-oriented over alcohol based products. Especially since I'm still constantly experimenting with different mixes and I don't think human beings were meant to constantly spray huge quantities of alcohol on their skins over long periods of time. RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - zerosix85 - 06-14-2012 2:10 AM Also if you're wondering where to get some fixatives and carriers and scents at wholesale prices. I use Save on Scents. They are based on the East Coast of the US and you can order a gallon of PA from them with no problem. RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - Fly So Hi - 06-14-2012 9:15 AM Thanks for the tips! I really thought PA an EtOH were basically the same thing. RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - 2Soon2Care - 06-16-2012 11:26 AM Another great dbot contribution is monolaurin in the form of Lauridicin pellets - http://www.amazon.com/Lauricidin%C2%AE-Pure-Monolaurin-Free-Shipping/dp/B004I8SMOQ I've added the pellets to everclear 90% ethanol and made a base carrier/diluent that I can add measured amounts of single-molecules and scents to, works great for experimenting. Here is dbot's experiences with monolaurin as a fixative : http://hackingthehive.com/main/2011/time-extending-pheromone-fragrances/ Enjoy! I'm really interested in the gel polymer matrix that Garry at Liquid Alchemy Labs has worked up in his new Overdose product : http://pherotruth.com/Thread-OVERDOSE-Pheromone-Gel-uh-oh-what-the-heck-is-this And Chris' work at Alpha-Dream with cyclomethicones is unparalleled but they absorb water from the atmosphere and won't mix with less than lab-grade 100% ethanol which I can't obtain, so mixing with them is kind of out of my league for now until I get access to the pure ethanol. When I do however I will mix the stuff in air-sealed containers like the ones used at doctor's offices for dispensing meds with syringes... RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - zerosix85 - 08-22-2012 7:16 PM Quote:I just picked up some silk base. Im wondering, are there different rules when it comes to mixing with it? Would I even need alcohol still? Nevermind, I found my answer! Sample Mixing Station - kmacc45 - 08-23-2012 9:37 AM ![]() Sample mixing station, Block of wood, holes drilled to size, covered with Black felt. Spilled mones equal lost money The Arsenal - kmacc45 - 08-23-2012 9:46 AM Family and friends think I'm crazy. I hope the mixers here can appreciated this.
RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - kmacc45 - 08-23-2012 11:43 AM Consistency ![]() Adding more mojo RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - kmacc45 - 08-23-2012 11:49 AM ![]() My last sander actually started a cyclone in the bottles. RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - kmacc45 - 08-23-2012 12:22 PM ![]() I can't stress how valuable this centrifuge is to the DIY mones. My DHEA is the best bar none (Ultimate Nutrition, DHEA). Made some cohesion and it is slamming (don't worry Steve, I will never post my verison). RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - Fly So Hi - 08-23-2012 1:43 PM *O* I thought I was the only crazy one! Amazing Kmacc! RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - kmacc45 - 08-23-2012 2:54 PM (08-23-2012 1:43 PM)Fly So Hi Wrote: *O* Back in the 60's there was a grocery store called Kwik-Check. And Kwik-Check use to give out these stamps, the value of the stamp always reflected the amount of money spends in the store. My Mama collected boxes and boxes of these stamps over the years and never really did anything with then. One day I stumped upon the catalog and saw a chemistry set in the book that seem very interesting. I don't really remember how many books of stamp it was, but I do remember gluing every stamp in the house into a book and needing more stamps. Anyway, I got the chemistry set and the little the little boy in me is still mixing today. RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - Fly So Hi - 08-23-2012 3:10 PM Haha awesome! ![]() I'll have to make me one of those soon, as my single molecules collection is growing!
RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - zerosix85 - 08-23-2012 6:30 PM I'm soo tempted to get a mini centrifuge now! Too bad the cheapest one I could find was with a strip tube rotor using .2 ml tubes
RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - zerosix85 - 08-25-2012 6:08 AM 30 ML Home brew bottle 26.5 ML - Perfumer's Alcohol SDA 40b 3 ML - DPG .5 ML - Androsterone-S Using your formula and assuming my spray top is putting out 140 ul, I'm getting roughly around With the help of this thread, I made my homebrew. Only thing that prevented me from doing it sooner was getting the PA as I'd rather not use lower grade alcohol. I might try and make a 10 mcg silk base version but I'm learning that it is a little tricky to play with. Might go for a Isopropyl Myristate version instead. Fly So Hi, thanks again man. RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - Fly So Hi - 08-25-2012 7:14 PM Thank you! Glad to see my work is helping people. I'm sorry for not having answered the oil-base question before. I really had not thought about it. You said you got your answer so, if you could point out where it is, I'd be grateful. Tks! EDIT: By the way, I use THESE bottles: You can see that the info on it says: "Atomizer Dispensing Amount: .14cc" (CC stands for cubic centimeters, another word for ml). These atomisers seem to be the standard in the phero industry now. That's why I calculate 140uL. EDIT 2: THey've updated the dispensing amount for 160uL now. Maybe it's a different manufacturer, so consider that when mixing your mixes. RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - The Doctor - 10-11-2013 8:43 AM (02-27-2012 6:07 PM)Fly So Hi Wrote: Hello pherotruthers! This is a long and boring post, so only read it if you need it. This is really awesome, thank you for this. I just wanted to ask, the amount of pheromones works out to 0.67ml. I just want to check is it not 0.067ml. (ul as 1ml = 1000ul.) Sorry just abit confused about the ul to mcg conversion. Also to mix this in a 50/50 alcohol to oil base, what would you recommend the increase should be? AWESOME post, thanks! RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - Fly So Hi - 10-14-2013 12:01 PM Thanks for the compliments! I'm glad you liked it. Very well. As you can see in the first formula, Vc is measured in microlitres. Microlitre = uL. Once, as you've correctly stated, 1 mL = 1000 uL... then 0.67 mL = 670 uL. And 0.067 mL = 67 uL. And 0.0067 will be 6.7 uL. And 0.00067 will be 0.67 uL or 670 nL. That is six-hundred and seventy nanolitres. And so on, and so forth. Now I don't have a rule of thumb for the increase in pheromones concentration in a mix, according to the carrier you're using. I know that for that ratio, the diffusion will be more linear along time, against a pure alcohol carrier, which would have a more "spiked" profile/diffusion curve. More or less like this: ![]() Alcohol carrier ![]() DPG carrier Anyway, this thread can give you a hint: http://pherotruth.com/Thread-Pheromones-Versus-Temperature?pid=36707#pid36707 Cheers! RE: Page 394 - A comprehensive guide for mixing molecules - The Doctor - 10-15-2013 12:27 AM (10-14-2013 12:01 PM)Fly So Hi Wrote: Thanks for the compliments! I'm glad you liked it. Thank you, very awesome way of putting it into perspective, cleared it up for me.! Awesome work! |