I am finding contrary to a lot of popular belief some of my best hits and behavior have been on days when I hit the gym.

It seems some say working out makes you tense and putting mones on top of a tense face makes things well tenser and won't do you any good.

But I am finding when I take a preworkout shake, then do circuit training with moderate weights for 40 min, then 20 min of cardio I am feelings like on top of the world.

Then after I relax , take a warm bath, and sometimes use an anti anxiety supplement to calm down my brain I feel rather centered and alert.

The addition of glace AM and a night of "heading out on the town" only adds to my optimization of socializing with people.

Sure I feel a bit burned out from working out but sometimes its the next day that i feel burned out the most not workout days.

Do any of you experience this "next day" burnout both mentally and physically? its like the workout needs recovery, your neurotranmitters are depleted from using mones and challenging your brain to work on full throttle, and sometimes a pre workout shake (I use one called 'assault') contains a lot of caffeine giving you energy but also causing a crash the next day.

Quite frankly my workout days are great but the day after is like D Day... I mean feel well like a soldier on the field... I'd hate to think what would happen if I had to go to 2 parties two days ina row!

(12-28-2012 8:48 PM)dsouza Wrote:  I am finding contrary to a lot of popular belief some of my best hits and behavior have been on days when I hit the gym.

It seems some say working out makes you tense and putting mones on top of a tense face makes things well tenser and won't do you any good.

But I am finding when I take a preworkout shake, then do circuit training with moderate weights for 40 min, then 20 min of cardio I am feelings like on top of the world.

Then after I relax , take a warm bath, and sometimes use an anti anxiety supplement to calm down my brain I feel rather centered and alert.

The addition of glace AM and a night of "heading out on the town" only adds to my optimization of socializing with people.

Sure I feel a bit burned out from working out but sometimes its the next day that i feel burned out the most not workout days.

Do any of you experience this "next day" burnout both mentally and physically? its like the workout needs recovery, your neurotranmitters are depleted from using mones and challenging your brain to work on full throttle, and sometimes a pre workout shake (I use one called 'assault') contains a lot of caffeine giving you energy but also causing a crash the next day.

Quite frankly my workout days are great but the day after is like D Day... I mean feel well like a soldier on the field... I'd hate to think what would happen if I had to go to 2 parties two days ina row!

1. I'm curious whether injesting the anti-anxiety supplement helped with your mone reactions.

2. A lot of people have written about recovering from mones using a b-vitamin complex, plenty of water and a little acid-neutral vit C. Alternative Girl has a dozen posts on the topic. Personally, as a vegetarian, I've found that adding a little creatine to the mix helps take the edge of androstadienone related depression and maybe other negative effects. While many doctors are opposed to creatine usage (they're familiar with it primarily due to its relationship to creatinine clearance and kidney funciton) and while non-vegetarians seem to have quite enough creatine already it seems that giving a gram or two a day to vegetarians is a good idea for both peak mental and physical performance.

3. I've never kept proper track of people's reactions when I hit the gym or not, but if I've BEEN hitting the gym people's reactions are certainly better and I'm calmer. I do notice that intense exercise reverses many forms of self-effects.

Same here, mones were kind of a tease for me. They worked great for like a week then they would fizzle out. No hits anymore.

When I go to the gym at least 3 times a week, I notice the effects are WAY over board.

When I work out though, I have naturally more energy and it puts me into a youthful state. I feel younger and with more energy I find being congruent is very easy.

(01-03-2013 10:56 AM)okyoureabeast Wrote:  Same here, mones were kind of a tease for me. They worked great for like a week then they would fizzle out. No hits anymore.

When I go to the gym at least 3 times a week, I notice the effects are WAY over board.

When I work out though, I have naturally more energy and it puts me into a youthful state. I feel younger and with more energy I find being congruent is very easy.

+1 on the last part about more energy. I do something every day with Sat being the day off.

I would also add that I have had some great hits AT the gym with mones, and these were simply socials from AD. Yes, I am just over 40 but pretty good looking and slightly muscular. The gym is actually at a local college so many good looking younger lassies around. Mind you I am not looking for something, but was curious what mones would do. Just a few examples.

Blonde would not stop looking at me while doing different barbell sets. She would quickly glance elsewhere when I looked her way but it was obvious(there are a lot of mirrors in that room). When she was doing abs with the ball, loose shorts were always pointed at me, when there are 100 other places to do this in that room.

Brunette, three times out of four while I was rotating between cardio in one room to pullup station in the other room, would also change her work up. Maybe a coincidence but why was she doing bench press(45 lb bar only) facing me, backwards on the bench!? I thought "who the hell does THAT?" Also, she made a point of putting her phone on the table while I was checking mine for emails during my workout, pretty much brushing me.

Same thing with another girl who was stretching for some track stuff by the indoor track area. Stretching, facing me, IOI was pretty obvious and again, the shorts were loose with panties in view. maybe the mones, maybe not, but I sure am having fun seeing the IOI's I never did before.

I don't say this to brag or sound like a pig but it's good to know and feel like I still "got it" lol.

(12-29-2012 1:12 AM)wiserd Wrote:  1. I'm curious whether injesting the anti-anxiety supplement helped with your mone reactions.

2. A lot of people have written about recovering from mones using a b-vitamin complex, plenty of water and a little acid-neutral vit C. Alternative Girl has a dozen posts on the topic. Personally, as a vegetarian, I've found that adding a little creatine to the mix helps take the edge of androstadienone related depression and maybe other negative effects. While many doctors are opposed to creatine usage (they're familiar with it primarily due to its relationship to creatinine clearance and kidney funciton) and while non-vegetarians seem to have quite enough creatine already it seems that giving a gram or two a day to vegetarians is a good idea for both peak mental and physical performance.

3. I've never kept proper track of people's reactions when I hit the gym or not, but if I've BEEN hitting the gym people's reactions are certainly better and I'm calmer. I do notice that intense exercise reverses many forms of self-effects.

Have you considered trying Kre-Alkalyn? It's easier on the body, absorbed better and very few if any draw backs. I have used it for a few years now and feel great. I have read many studies and articles that it does not stress the kidneys like the normal creatine supps might.

(01-06-2013 2:16 PM)nicktoons Wrote:  Have you considered trying Kre-Alkalyn? It's easier on the body, absorbed better and very few if any draw backs. I have used it for a few years now and feel great. I have read many studies and articles that it does not stress the kidneys like the normal creatine supps might.

Thanks for the heads up. Can you find anything that explains what the stuff actually IS chemically. All the stuff I can find, even the supposed "trials", don't actually discuss the nature of the chemical being tested.

HOW is it buffered?

I can find exactly one study in pub med which doesn't describe the chemical makeup of Kre-Alkalyn and isn't particularly supportive of Kre-Alkalyn supplementation.

Quote:CONCLUSIONS:

Neither manufacturers recommended doses of KA (Kre-Alkalyn ) (1.5 g/d) or KA with equivalent loading (20 g/d for 7-days) and maintenance doses (5 g/d for 21-days) of CrM (Creatine monohydrate) promoted greater changes in muscle creatine content, body composition, strength, or anaerobic capacity than CrM (20 g/d for 7-days, 5 g/d for 21-days). There was no evidence that supplementing the diet with a buffered form of creatine resulted in fewer side effects than CrM. These findings do not support claims that consuming a buffered form of creatine is a more efficacious and/or safer form of creatine to consume than creatine monohydrate.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Kre-Alkalyn

I'm not loading at the levels most body builders are. My max is about a gram or two a day. And part of my intent is improved mental performance/better toned metabolism that vegetarians get from creatine supplementaiton.

(01-06-2013 2:55 PM)wiserd Wrote:  Thanks for the heads up. Can you find anything that explains what the stuff actually IS chemically. All the stuff I can find, even the supposed "trials", don't actually discuss the nature of the chemical being tested.

HOW is it buffered?

I can find exactly one study in pub med which doesn't describe the chemical makeup of Kre-Alkalyn and isn't particularly supportive of Kre-Alkalyn supplementation.

Quote:CONCLUSIONS:

Neither manufacturers recommended doses of KA (Kre-Alkalyn ) (1.5 g/d) or KA with equivalent loading (20 g/d for 7-days) and maintenance doses (5 g/d for 21-days) of CrM (Creatine monohydrate) promoted greater changes in muscle creatine content, body composition, strength, or anaerobic capacity than CrM (20 g/d for 7-days, 5 g/d for 21-days). There was no evidence that supplementing the diet with a buffered form of creatine resulted in fewer side effects than CrM. These findings do not support claims that consuming a buffered form of creatine is a more efficacious and/or safer form of creatine to consume than creatine monohydrate.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=Kre-Alkalyn

I'm not loading at the levels most body builders are. My max is about a gram or two a day. And part of my intent is improved mental performance/better toned metabolism that vegetarians get from creatine supplementaiton.

Not sure how they are buffered, however what I use is ph protected in that is it up'd to a ph of 12, meaning it gets to the muscles instead of getting destroyed by stomach acids resulting in less of it getting to where it need to go. I can tell a big diff from what I used at first versus this, and it will not give me any bloating. I happen to use kre-alkalyn pro from all american efx. The non juiced up version works well too, however the caffeine for me helps get me worked up a bit more when I lift. There is no loading phase with this stuff, and I am not that big of a "lift freak" anyway. I am not out to impress the world at just over 40 so it works well. I also like to run to it's kind of a balancing act since running tends to eat up muscle like there is no tomorrow.

I can't find the studies right now as time is short but will post later when time allows.

(01-06-2013 5:05 PM)nicktoons Wrote:  

Quote:I'm not loading at the levels most body builders are. My max is about a gram or two a day. And part of my intent is improved mental performance/better toned metabolism that vegetarians get from creatine supplementaiton.

Not sure how they are buffered, however what I use is ph protected in that is it up'd to a ph of 12, meaning it gets to the muscles instead of getting destroyed by stomach acids resulting in less of it getting to where it need to go. I can tell a big diff from what I used at first versus this, and it will not give me any bloating. I happen to use kre-alkalyn pro from all american efx. The non juiced up version works well too, however the caffeine for me helps get me worked up a bit more when I lift. There is no loading phase with this stuff, and I am not that big of a "lift freak" anyway. I am not out to impress the world at just over 40 so it works well. I also like to run to it's kind of a balancing act since running tends to eat up muscle like there is no tomorrow.

I can't find the studies right now as time is short but will post later when time allows.

Here's a site critiquing 'buffered creatine' which it suggests is simply normal creatine with a buffer added, at least in this instance. I have tons more creatine than I'm ever going to use in the next few years. If this stuff is just creatine monohydrate with a buffer added, I can MAKE that for way cheap. I've never had any issues using creatine monohydrate in the dosages I do. I don't know what would happen to me if I were taking huge doses, but I intend to keep things reasonable. The average american diet overdoses on creatine for the level of exercise that the average american gets. I've spent some time looking at some buffered creatines and they look like so much marketing hype, as far as I can tell, long on endorsements and short on actual science. I'll keep an open mind, but so far I already have a pretty high magnesium diet and I haven't seen anything that suggests these new creatines would help me.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/satter27.htm

A pH of 12?! That's the same alkalinity as sodium hydroxide which is a powerfully caustic base. I suspect you'd saponify the oils in your skin with something that strong.

(01-06-2013 5:42 PM)wiserd Wrote:  Not sure how they are buffered, however what I use is ph protected in that is it up'd to a ph of 12, meaning it gets to the muscles instead of getting destroyed by stomach acids resulting in less of it getting to where it need to go. I can tell a big diff from what I used at first versus this, and it will not give me any bloating. I happen to use kre-alkalyn pro from all american efx. The non juiced up version works well too, however the caffeine for me helps get me worked up a bit more when I lift. There is no loading phase with this stuff, and I am not that big of a "lift freak" anyway. I am not out to impress the world at just over 40 so it works well. I also like to run to it's kind of a balancing act since running tends to eat up muscle like there is no tomorrow.

I can't find the studies right now as time is short but will post later when time allows.

Here's a site critiquing 'buffered creatine' which it suggests is simply normal creatine with a buffer added, at least in this instance. I have tons more creatine than I'm ever going to use in the next few years. If this stuff is just creatine monohydrate with a buffer added, I can MAKE that for way cheap. I've never had any issues using creatine monohydrate in the dosages I do. I don't know what would happen to me if I were taking huge doses, but I intend to keep things reasonable. The average american diet overdoses on creatine for the level of exercise that the average american gets. I've spent some time looking at some buffered creatines and they look like so much marketing hype, as far as I can tell, long on endorsements and short on actual science. I'll keep an open mind, but so far I already have a pretty high magnesium diet and I haven't seen anything that suggests these new creatines would help me.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/satter27.htm

A pH of 12?! That's the same alkalinity as sodium hydroxide which is a powerfully caustic base. I suspect you'd saponify the oils in your skin with something that strong.
[/quote]

I suspect the high ph is to protect it from being broken down by stomach acid, just my educated guess though. I'm sure I would have bledding ulcers by now if it was related to sodium hydroxide

I have found that my use of the supplement ASSAULT by MusclePharm which contains creatine and my positive experiences with working out and using mones the same day before the crash, only hurt me in the long run.

Creatine upsets my stomach and makes me bloated.

I have recently switched to vegetarian pre workouts called "VEGA". I take a pre workout, a post workout electrolyte supp, a protein powder with no lactose, and also find the lack of caffeine has me sleeping better at night making my mind a lot more alert .. No crash.

Also I find I had to cut down my weights to smaller amount.. Because I wasn't taking creatine I wasn't as strong.. But still the relative exertion without creatine made my muscles grow with less poundages so I still am bigger with less fat although I'm not as strong.

I like this much better..

i now find I'm too tense, tired, and just want to eat and sleep on workout days. the days off from working out is when I apply mones, and go out.. This has worked wonders for me.

Any comments?

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