(02-04-2016 12:56 AM)fero-man Wrote:  Kore (with capital K) is the best. Nothing, and I repeat, Nothing come close to it.

Isn't that Core V2? What'd you see with it?

(02-04-2016 2:34 AM)Ekscentra Wrote:  They're not "better revisions." CORE still beats out everything in one respect - it can be successfully combined with almost anything.

CV4 was great when it worked, but it was painfully inconsistent for me, and for others it did nothing at all. I'm still looking for my ideal version of CORE, personally. CV3 might have been it, but seeing as that's no longer available, I couldn't be sure of that.

What do you mean with inconsistent?

(02-11-2016 5:07 PM)kerno Wrote:  What do you mean with inconsistent?

It was either CORE on placebo or it did nothing at all. It worked about 30% of the time. Other times it was less than useless. I suspect Alpha-THDOC and Pregnanolone derivatives cancel out the effects of otherwise excellent mixes. All of the mixes that haven't worked or have been inconsistent for me have contained one of these two, and it's perfectly consistent with their MoA.

Most pheromones are believed to act through GABA receptors. Alpha-THDOC and most or all Pregnanolone derivatives block GABA. It's very simple. It's a wonder most vendors aren't looking into this. I've had no consistency troubles with most LAL mixes, nor Pheromone Treasures, Androtics, Love-Scent, etc. Only vendors that explicitly mention the use of Pregnanolone derivatives or Alpha-THDOC have been problematic for me.

I've had little trouble with most Apex mixes. Aside from the test mixes, most have been exceptionally consistent. With a little too much heat, perhaps the problematic molecules lift off the skin in too high a concentration, thus preventing the other components from doing a thing.

I doubt I'm wrong about this, and if I'm not, it's a serious problem with a simple fix. Mix up a small batch of some mix excluding the GABA-blocking components, send to a few testers who have reported consistency problems with the mix in question, and do a side-by-side comparison. I almost guarantee that this has next to nothing to do with skin chemistry. It's likely a few components (which I've mentioned) that we thought to be beneficial, but that are in fact highly detrimental to any mix they're used in.

(02-11-2016 6:03 PM)Ekscentra Wrote:  It was either CORE on placebo or it did nothing at all. It worked about 30% of the time. Other times it was less than useless. I suspect Alpha-THDOC and Pregnanolone derivatives cancel out the effects of otherwise excellent mixes. All of the mixes that haven't worked or have been inconsistent for me have contained one of these two, and it's perfectly consistent with their MoA.

Most pheromones are believed to act through GABA receptors. Alpha-THDOC and most or all Pregnanolone derivatives block GABA. It's very simple. It's a wonder most vendors aren't looking into this. I've had no consistency troubles with most LAL mixes, nor Pheromone Treasures, Androtics, Love-Scent, etc. Only vendors that explicitly mention the use of Pregnanolone derivatives or Alpha-THDOC have been problematic for me.

I've had little trouble with most Apex mixes. Aside from the test mixes, most have been exceptionally consistent. With a little too much heat, perhaps the problematic molecules lift off the skin in too high a concentration, thus preventing the other components from doing a thing.

I doubt I'm wrong about this, and if I'm not, it's a serious problem with a simple fix. Mix up a small batch of some mix excluding the GABA-blocking components, send to a few testers who have reported consistency problems with the mix in question, and do a side-by-side comparison. I almost guarantee that this has next to nothing to do with skin chemistry. It's likely a few components (which I've mentioned) that we thought to be beneficial, but that are in fact highly detrimental to any mix they're used in.

Thanks

For me CV4 worked wonders and CV4.5 was even better altough I didn't liked it at all alone the CV4. Probably because of what you call inconsistent. You call it inconsistent I would call it fake , like XiSt oil did for me, it worked well untill I started talking which was also not likely to happen because of the self effects. When I talk with it the conversation is fake. The product is too strong for me.

But CV4(.5) together with another product induced fallout for me. It definally worked well for me I wore that other product and went into a convo with random girls, although it didn't always went fluent and natural for some reason when we were talking and I sprayed unnoticed the CV4.(5)(on my hands) I was two minutes away from closing the deal. Or when I just went CV4.5 with the other product from the start. Some girl I knew just grabbed me away from the people I were talking with and it was just my choise if it would close or not.. There happened a lot of crazy shit with these two products together, but if Thunder isn't going to sell me CV4.5 anymore my life won't be as awesome anymore..

CV4.5 hasn't given me that fake conversation/inconsistent, where CV4 did sometimes (mostly when I wore it alone).

If CV4.5 won't be sold anymore I'm not going to purchase anything again from apex out of principal because it's not fair and immoral to sell something then respond in an e-mail it will be in stock for a while and then stop selling it. If I knew it would be discontinued I would have bought 10 bottles or more of it. Thunder gave me a clone CV4.5 with a alternative molecule(to replace the molecule that's out of stock) and it worked well for me this far. So I guess and mostly hope he will be selling it to me in the future. And if the CV4.5 would be out of stock because it's too expensive to make, I wouldn't mind giving some extra money for it.

btw: I only used core CV4 and CV4.5 this far

By inconsistent, I mean to say it was indistinguishable from my normal interactions.

thundr has been giving out test mixes produced in small batches for some time now. PM him, see if you can work something out. Threatening not to do business with him over a model that's worked for him since the beginning is more than a little absurd. I see no reason why he wouldn't be willing to produce one-off batches of unavailable mixes.

(02-11-2016 6:03 PM)Ekscentra Wrote:  It was either CORE on placebo or it did nothing at all. It worked about 30% of the time. Other times it was less than useless. I suspect Alpha-THDOC and Pregnanolone derivatives cancel out the effects of otherwise excellent mixes. All of the mixes that haven't worked or have been inconsistent for me have contained one of these two, and it's perfectly consistent with their MoA.

Most pheromones are believed to act through GABA receptors. Alpha-THDOC and most or all Pregnanolone derivatives block GABA. It's very simple.

Hi Ekscentra I always enjoy reading your posts, no doubt you're very smart and know your chemistry.

I was very interested in your view of Alpha-THDOC and Pregnanolone >> are you stating that these two usually fuck up a mix with other components like Androstenone, Androsterone or nols?

I remember you saying in another post that alpha-thdoc is like a bridge molecule giving a blend more synergy. Pregnanolone from my understanding acts like a spotlight on the user...attention grabbing.

If you think that Alpha-THDOC and Pregnanolone hinder pheromone blends...is that why you are not a fan of PheromoneXS?

(02-12-2016 1:52 PM)andromun Wrote:  Hi Ekscentra I always enjoy reading your posts, no doubt you're very smart and know your chemistry.

I was very interested in your view of Alpha-THDOC and Pregnanolone >> are you stating that these two usually fuck up a mix with other components like Androstenone, Androsterone or nols?

I remember you saying in another post that alpha-thdoc is like a bridge molecule giving a blend more synergy. Pregnanolone from my understanding acts like a spotlight on the user...attention grabbing.

If you think that Alpha-THDOC and Pregnanolone hinder pheromone blends...is that why you are not a fan of PheromoneXS?

I believe they do cancel out the effects of a blend. Rate of diffusion, skin chemistry, etc. will effect this, but at some point A-THDOC and Pregnanolone derivatives seem to cancel out the effects of a blend.

Alpha-THDOC still seemingly has the ,bridge molecule" benefit, but it comes at a heavy price. Regardless, Iso E Super and relatives along with all of the P9x series are capable of producing similar effects without the downsides of A-THDOC.

I think you're thinking of Pregnenolone? That too is a GABA blocker, so this may factor in as well. The depression caused by Pregnenolone was too much for me to notice any other properties. Did dbot not mention Pregnenolone overwhelming the mix at some point, preventing other molecules from working properly? This would be consistent with blockage of GABA.

If I'm right, this might be one of the only reasons I don't like PXS. Steve putting too much faith in a molecule that ultimately detracts from his mixes. I'd be willing to give PXS yet another shot were they to remove the GABA blockers. Their cover scents are still atrocious, though!

And for what it's worth, I don't know much at all about chemistry. Pharmacology I have some working understanding of. This was a realization I've come through with personal experience. Once vendors start looking into it, we may be able to solve most or all of the constistency issues some members have been experriencing on these boards, not to mention those mixes often reported to do nothing at all. I'd consider this the most important step in getting back to the mixes of old.

Lastly, I should mention: I've been coming a long way formulating my own mixes. The only things I've been avoiding are the GABA blockers, with both the known common molecules and many novel molecules being put to use - consistency has been absolutely top-notch with testers so far. If it's not the GABA blockers, I can't imagine what the problem might be.

Thank you for input very valuable in my book. I think the best XS products are Evolve and Taboo. XiSt is great but super subtle and not an in your face mone.

Cohesion is supposed to be like A.1 but since I don't suffer from the depression like effects >> Cohesion wasn't exactly very noticeable. It did seem to behave like A.1 but there are too many users that felt depression from Cohesion, makes you wonder.

The mixes that didn't work for me were: Api, Bliss, Magnetic and Approach confidence >> they simply fell flat.

As far as the question on this post, I got Core when it first came out and it was amazing.

Kore wasn't exactly what I expected and I didn't bother with Cv4

(02-12-2016 1:15 PM)Ekscentra Wrote:  By inconsistent, I mean to say it was indistinguishable from my normal interactions.

thundr has been giving out test mixes produced in small batches for some time now. PM him, see if you can work something out. Threatening not to do business with him over a model that's worked for him since the beginning is more than a little absurd. I see no reason why he wouldn't be willing to produce one-off batches of unavailable mixes.

I know he wouldn't do that, it's just at this moment I would let's just say not like it, because it works so well for me. This last night I went out again with my combo to a party where people are normally just to dance and there just came a girl saying hello, and some other chitchatstuff, after one minute she just asked if I would like to kiss her.. OK.. I tested a lot of stuff out and I just think I'm gonna need a big supply of CV4.5 in my life..
But I can only hope for it to be sold, you can never be sure of something

(02-13-2016 2:18 AM)kerno Wrote:  I know he wouldn't do that, it's just at this moment I would let's just say not like it, because it works so well for me. This last night I went out again with my combo to a party where people are normally just to dance and there just came a girl saying hello, and some other chitchatstuff, after one minute she just asked if I would like to kiss her.. OK.. I tested a lot of stuff out and I just think I'm gonna need a big supply of CV4.5 in my life..
But I can only hope for it to be sold, you can never be sure of something

How old was the girl, and how old are you, K?

Thanks!