Hi James,

This thread was meant for people who are either experienced pheromone users, or for manufacturers who wish to buy the raw materials.

The gram sizes are only offered in raw form to manufacturers. Don't worry; I don't plan to put grams of pheromones into spray bottles.

The concentrates we supply are 1000 PPM, or 1mg of a pheromone compound per mL. Usually these are used by experienced users to add a certain amount of pheromones to an existing formula, or used to create their own mixtures.

More is not always better James, that’s not what I mean to imply. From my observations, the maximum concentration of pheromones differs according to the pheromone. Compounds such as androstadienone, androstenone and androsterone have a relatively low threshold, while compounds such as alpha or beta androstenol, and estratetraenol can be used in abundant quantities without any incidence of side effects, and with increasing returns up to a point.

From my understanding, your scent of eros contains an abundant quantity of alpha androstenol, so you have also noticed that alpha androstenol can be used generously.

Thanks, Chris. It's a good idea to make sure that people don't misunderstand. One milligram per milliliter seems to be an arbitrary concentration. How did you determine it would be effective with the different chemicals you supply? I've only seen one presentation that indicated this would be the correct concentration for androstenol, and that conference presentation was in 2009 -- long after I correctly formulated The Scent of Eros products. Of course, I think it's the chemical mixture that counts with some additional help from the proper amount of carefully formulated fragrance. It's not too difficult to work with androstenol due to it's musky odor, but adding other chemicals to the mix, and fragrance can make it take years to perfect product. Again, however, the conference presentation that supported the addition of fragrance was in 2008. Do you have access to conference proceedings, for example?

Most marketers with products that have been promoted during the past decade have rather consistently evaded any questions about the chemicals they use in their products or the reason they are using whatever they use. Since you don't seem to be so evasive, I'm interested in finding out about any science that's involved in your product formulations.

James V. Kohl
http://www.pheromones.com

(12-26-2010 3:55 PM)Alpha Dream Wrote:  Hi James,

This thread was meant for people who are either experienced pheromone users, or for manufacturers who wish to buy the raw materials.

The gram sizes are only offered in raw form to manufacturers. Don't worry; I don't plan to put grams of pheromones into spray bottles.

The concentrates we supply are 1000 PPM, or 1mg of a pheromone compound per mL. Usually these are used by experienced users to add a certain amount of pheromones to an existing formula, or used to create their own mixtures.

More is not always better James, that’s not what I mean to imply. From my observations, the maximum concentration of pheromones differs according to the pheromone. Compounds such as androstadienone, androstenone and androsterone have a relatively low threshold, while compounds such as alpha or beta androstenol, and estratetraenol can be used in abundant quantities without any incidence of side effects, and with increasing returns up to a point.

From my understanding, your scent of eros contains an abundant quantity of alpha androstenol, so you have also noticed that alpha androstenol can be used generously.

Hi James,

The 1mg/mL is arbitrary, but it’s easy to use. For instance, say that someone buys a commercial formula, but thinks it needs a little bit more -none. They would use my concentrate to add 2 mgs by measuring out 2 mL. It just makes it simple for people to calculate how much they want to add.

Quote:Do you have access to conference proceedings, for example?

I don't, but im sure they would be helpful. Can you link to these?

Quote:Most marketers with products that have been promoted during the past decade have rather consistently evaded any questions about the chemicals they use in their products or the reason they are using whatever they use. Since you don't seem to be so evasive, I'm interested in finding out about any science that's involved in your product formulations.

I go more by instinct here than by science. The base that I use for all formulas is alpha androstenol - its universal and in every formula. Working from there, I add other chemicals to create an intended effect. The below is not complete, I will post a more detailed explanation later on.

For example: If I want a very masculine formula, I add androstadienone and androstenone. If I want a more subtle male formula, I substitute androstadienone for beta-androstadienol, and androstenone for androsterone.

Androstanone is another universal. -stanone is interesting as it seems to buffer the effect of -none and -dienone, by reducing aggression amongst other men. It also seems strongly social, acting very much like androstenol. It seems to enhance the effect of androstenol when used in concert.

DHEAS is another universal 'pheromone' I use. It’s in virtually every formula. It does not act like other pheromones, inspiring sexual attraction or social enhancement, but rather just makes the wearer feel good. It creates a strange, buzzing sensation in the stomach, almost like butterflies, only in a more positive way. You really might want to check out DHEAS james, it might make a valuable contribution to scent of eros.

As you seem more interested in the psychology of pheromones than anything else, I would highly encourage you to experiment with androstanone, and DHEAS, and report on them scientifically. I think if you open yourself up to them, you will see some interesting results, and we can all benefit from further scientific study.

The conference proceedings are helpful to me in predicting the direction research will take. If I make them public, some marketers will steal the information to make it appear their claims are supported. My writings are frequently plagiarized in this regard.

Science does not support the use of chemicals that lack species-specificity for broad based inclusion in products that claim to contain human pheromones. That's the problem I have with a "shotgun" approach, where everything is promoted as a human pheromone. Perhaps there are many chemicals in a human-specific mixture, but typically only a few are needed to elicit effects. Also, there are sex differences that must be considered if anyone expects an effect on the opposite sex. "Effect" means on hormones that are responsible for the behavioral affect. This is where DHEAS has failed to convince other researchers. How might DHEAS have an effect that's different in males compared to females? It's the same to me as saying testosterone or estradiol has pheromonal affects, but they're hormones, not pheromones.

I'm not nearly as interested in the psychology of pheromones as I am their biological basis, which I can readily extend across species to successfully predict affects on human behavior. There are many new recent developments in this regard, so I'm preparing another journal article to bring others up to date. At the same time I continue to wonder why marketers have been silent about Richard Doty's book: The Great Pheromone Myth. Here we have an affront to the business of human pheromones that has gone unanswered by anyone, except me. That suggests to many others that marketers have nothing good to say about their products, or the concept of human pheromones -- they just simply expect to keep selling what Doty says doesn't exist.

It's past time for marketers to do the experiments that support their claims. The studies can be a bit expensive but are what I believe to be ethically required. For example, a colleague used my study design to show that androstadienone did not affect flirtatious behavior in couples. Where's the results from research that show it is effective for anything? Last time I looked, Dial was still marketing product with androstadienone supposedly having its effects via the non-functional human VNO, which they seem to think is functional.

Time to wind down.

James V. Kohl
http://www.pheromones.com

This thread went totally cockeyed for no reason.

I just want to say that I'm totally stoked to hear that you'll be providing a steady supply of promising molecules, Chris! I want to collect them all!

Awesome!! And cheap, too! You rock!

One question -- it would be poor form to use your coupon code for these, right?

Also, it looks like your DHEAS link is leading to crystalline androstenone.

(02-09-2011 1:45 AM)dbot Wrote:  Also, it looks like your DHEAS link is leading to crystalline androstenone.

http://alpha-dream.3dcartstores.com/Conc...s_c_2.html


@ Chris

We need more mones, "new" mones, you are great!!!

Methoxyestratetraenone as concentrate would be nice...

Hi,

I have updated the link for DHEAS

My receipt from Sigma-Aldrich shows that I paid $113.54 for 1000 mg of androsterone on 12/08/2000. With inflation and your mark-up, your price of $300 seems reasonable. However, Sigma-Aldrich guaranteed purity. This is especially important given the contamination of products with lead, for example, which has been an issue from overseas suppliers. And some researchers think that anything less than relatively unachievable 100% purity skews study results, because of the human ability to detect parts per billion.

Also, Sigma-Aldrich did not previously sell to individuals not involved with research at universities or medical facilities (as indicated by the shipping address). I thought there was a law against distribution to private parties. If not, the question of purity guarantees still remains.

Thank you in advance for informing us about these issues,

James V. Kohl
http://www.scentoferos.com

(02-14-2011 6:27 PM)Alpha Dream Wrote:  Hi,

I have updated the link for DHEAS