Quote:Exposure to common food additive carrageenan leads to reduced sulfatase activity and increase in sulfated glycosaminoglycans in human epithelial cells.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22410212

If the body wants to store DHEA, it converts it to DHEAS. Carrageenan would lead to less DHEAS in the body, both for better and for worse.

Quote:Carrageenans or carrageenins (play /ˌkærəˈɡiːnənz/ KARR-ə-GHEE-nənz) are a family of linear sulfated polysaccharides that are extracted from red seaweeds. There are several varieties of carrageen used in cooking and baking. Kappa-carrageenan is used mostly in breading and batter due to its gelling nature. Lambda carrageenan is a non-gelling variety that assists in binding, retaining moisture, and in contributing to viscosity in sweet doughs. Iota carrageenan is used primarily in fruit applications and requires calcium ions to develop a heat-reversible and flexible gel.[1]

Gelatinous extracts of the Chondrus crispus (Irish Moss) seaweed have been used as food additives for hundreds of years.[2] Carrageenan is a vegetarian and vegan alternative to gelatin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carrageenan

I've never been particularly aware of Carrageenan before, but now that I realize it's so potentially biologically active I'll keep my eyes peeled.

Carrageenan:

Wiserd what is the downside to this? I am concerned because I'm addicted to almond milk and this stuff is always in it!

(07-21-2012 3:14 PM)FUNNER Wrote:  Carrageenan:

Wiserd what is the downside to this? I am concerned because I'm addicted to almond milk and this stuff is always in it!

I'm still trying to figure this out. At this point, I'd say "see if people react differently to you when you're drinking almond milk and when you're not because it should alter your pheromonal profile.'

I'm doing some digging into this topic when I have time.

Injection of carrageenan seems to cause inflammation.

Quote:The use of R. apiculata substantially reduced the acute inflammation (assessed as paw edema) induced by carrageenan
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22800297

Quote:Activated AQP4, endoplasmic reticulum stress and p66Shc were actively implicated in the inflammation and these were suppressed by argirein
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22775217

I apologize for posting while in the process of informing myself on a topic. There are a number of sites which seem paranoid about carrageenan. I'm currently reading through this article which seems more level headed on the topic.

In short, carrageenan as a whole herb has a long history in food use, but it seems unclear as yet exactly what processing and extraction do to it.

Aww C'mon Wise -
None of this apologies stuff. I always appreciate the different topics you ruminate about and I've learned much from your additions.
Don't want to squelch any notion you might have of putting stuff out there...

There is a lot of paranoia out there about this stuff - hopefully its paranoia.
I'm really hoping that stuff isn't what they're pointing it to be or I can find a substitute.
Inflammation is a bad bad thing. Dr. Barry Sears has been on this kick for ages...

(07-21-2012 7:17 PM)FUNNER Wrote:  Inflammation is a bad bad thing. Dr. Barry Sears has been on this kick for ages...

I agree. Though tangentally, I don't think that the benefits of anti-inflammatories match people's health expectations. More particularly, I feel that some anti-inflammatories like the Omega-3s have been oversold a little. They do have many benefits, but they can also suppress immune function. And there are enough of serious issues with trying to use aspirin to prevent a heart attack that I hope noone tries it anymore.

Okay, so I've spent a few hours looking over this stuff... I'm surprised I haven't heard of these problems before and there's not more resistance to Carrageenan's use. This stuff sounds deeply problematic. If it's paranoia, count me among the paranoid.

Quote:Carrageenan is sulfated polysaccharide which has been extensively used as emulsifier and thickening agent in the food industry, for its ability to induce acute inflammation in pharmacology and for its selectively toxic effect for macrophages in immunology.
...
Carrageenan, a component of the barium enema solution, produced positive reactions to allergy skin test and RAST. Gastrointestinal symptoms for which the patient was being investigated by the barium enema subsequently disappeared with a diet free of carrageenan.
...
they are known to be biologically active in a number of physiological systems and extended oral administration in laboratory animals has been shown to modify both in vivo and in vitro immune competence.
...

Rapid production of ulcerative disease of the colon in newly-weaned guinea-pigs by degraded carrageenan.
Marcus AJ, Marcus SN, Marcus R, Watt J.
In a dose-response study, degraded carrageenan (Eucheuma spinosum) was supplied in the drinking fluid at 1.2 and 3% concentrations over two weeks to young adult guinea-pigs. Ulceration of the large bowel was produced in 100% of animals, the severity and extent of damage probably being dose-related. In a time-course study, 3% degraded carrageenan solution supplied to newly-weaned guinea-pigs produced in 100% of animals ulceration in the caecum by four days and in the ascending colon by seven days. The onset of ulceration occurred as early as the second day. This model is convenient and economic for the screening of drugs of potential therapeutic value in human ulcerative colitis.

http://www.functionalps.com/blog/2011/11...-immunity/


A spokesman for the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) says there are two kinds of carrageenan -- undegraded and degraded. Undegraded carrageenan is what has been approved by the FDA for use in food. Degraded carrageenan has changed into a different substance and really isn't carrageenan anymore, says the spokesperson, and that is often what's been used in research studies.

According to the FDA, carrageenan is considered safe when manufactured according to FDA guidelines. Tobacman, however, says that virtually all carrageenan changes into degraded carrageenan. She says even when manufacturers use undegraded carrageenan, food preparation and the acid in our stomachs inevitably break some of the substance down into degraded carrageenan.

http://www.annieappleseedproject.org/carandcolcan.html

Quote:a) degraded carrageenan produces neoplasms and ulcerations in animal models;

b) acid hydrolysis, such as occurs in the stomach, leads to the production of degraded carrageenan from food-grade carrageenan; and

c) food-grade carrageenan contains significant amounts of degraded carrageenan.
Human consumption of carrageenan has been increasing steadily in the United States in the
20th century.

http://www.scdrecipe.com/blog/archive/20...rrageenan/

Quote:In this article I review the association between exposure to carrageenan and the occurrence of colonic ulcerations and gastrointestinal neoplasms in animal models. Although the International Agency for Research on Cancer in 1982 identified sufficient evidence for the carcinogenicity of degraded carrageenan in animals to regard it as posing a carcinogenic risk to humans, carrageenan is still used widely as a thickener, stabilizer, and texturizer in a variety of processed foods prevalent in the Western diet. I reviewed experimental data pertaining to carrageenan's effects with particular attention to the occurrence of ulcerations and neoplasms in association with exposure to carrageenan. In addition, I reviewed from established sources mechanisms for production of degraded carrageenan from undegraded or native carrageenan and data with regard to carrageenan intake. Review of these data demonstrated that exposure to undegraded as well as to degraded carrageenan was associated with the occurrence of intestinal ulcerations and neoplasms. This association may be attributed to contamination of undegraded carrageenan by components of low molecular weight, spontaneous metabolism of undegraded carrageenan by acid hydrolysis under conditions of normal digestion, or the interactions with intestinal bacteria. Although in 1972, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration considered restricting dietary carrageenan to an average molecular weight > 100,000, this resolution did not prevail, and no subsequent regulation has restricted use. Because of the acknowledged carcinogenic properties of degraded carrageenan in animal models and the cancer-promoting effects of undegraded carrageenan in experimental models, the widespread use of carrageenan in the Western diet should be reconsidered.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11675262

Wow this is interesting - I wonder if some of the larger natural foods markets that do their own research would bite at this and try to eliminate products with carageenan from their product lines? They would probably spend a bit of time on the backstory in order to fend off any potential consumer backlash from the health-conscious crowd... Thinking of Trader Joe, Whole Foods/Greenlife, and EarthFare in particular...

(07-22-2012 11:58 PM)2Soon2Care Wrote:  Wow this is interesting - I wonder if some of the larger natural foods markets that do their own research would bite at this and try to eliminate products with carageenan from their product lines? They would probably spend a bit of time on the backstory in order to fend off any potential consumer backlash from the health-conscious crowd... Thinking of Trader Joe, Whole Foods/Greenlife, and EarthFare in particular...

Good idea. I posted some of what I've found on Facebook and I'm going to try to see if I can get some of my health conscious friends with contrary views to argue against me to see if there are any flaws in my thinking.

If it turns out to be solid, it certainly would be interesting to see if we could get places like Trader Joes to either use a safer, large molecule form of Carrageenan (not sure if that's possible) or eliminate it altogether.

It's also interesting that Carrageenan induced inflammation leads to less DHEAS.... so DHEAS may be one thing that particularly signals low levels of certain types of inflammation. Rodents also dramatically reduce pheromone production when they're sick, and are consequently sexually ignored. Maybe we've found one of those stronger signals in humans?

Ugh great - now I have to consider if a steady diet of seaweed extract in my staple foraging is causing me to be sexually ignored...

This may help :
http://www.cornucopia.org/2012/05/shoppi...rrageenan/

Wiser - you not an asparin a day guy?

(07-23-2012 6:15 PM)2Soon2Care Wrote:  Ugh great - now I have to consider if a steady diet of seaweed extract in my staple foraging is causing me to be sexually ignored...

I don't think you have to worry when you're wearing mones, 2soon, at least not as far as attractiveness is concerned. Half the purpose of mones is to artificially add back the stuff that unhealthy or inflamed people stop producing, I think.