I'm the one that's been doing work with D. Indusiata along with Ekscentra.

(02-17-2016 11:29 AM)Alphonse Wrote:  How many women did you try it on?

I've tried it on a couple women, with short exposure time, but I didn't get any explicit reactions. I've since discovered ways to potentiate the effect, but I've been working on other things.

Quote:How many found the scent repulsive?

The D. Indusiata I have is used for culinary purposes and has a savory smell like soy sauce.

Quote:How many experienced this body high you talk about? Were they aware they might experience a body high before you exposed them to it?

At least one. Myself. It's real. The effect is well beyond placebo.

Quote:Are you contemplating including this as an ingredient in some commercial product you are thinking of selling?

That is what we all hope for.

Quote:So far it sounds like nonsense. The only study that claims the purported effects is by a man who has a business selling mushrooms and which he published in a journal for which he is listed as an editor (despite the fact that he does not seem to have any actual scientific credentials). All the secrecy, the NDA with the unnamed pharamaceutical giant, the lack of other studies ... my money is on this shrrom doing fuck all. Methinks I will stick to psilocybin and a little amanita for the slow days personally.

A.

The only nonsense I can see is that drawn out article about a bunch of clueless academics and a lady that had to write an article without any results because she flew all the way to Hawaii for a story.

The first key is diffusion. Sniffing the dried fungus does nothing but remind me of egg rolls. But making an alcohol extract changes things considerably.

However, orgasm-inducing is probably a stretch, at least with what I've experienced. The truth is probably that it is between total nonsense and turning teenage princesses into sex-crazed sluts (the only redeeming part of that article).

The closest to the truth is this anecdote, which was unfortunately glossed over:

"eventually, she admitted to Holliday that she got a kind of euphoric effect from the smell. "

So, to clarify:

1. There is no science that supports any of the claims of the original study (you know, science, the stuff that is done by those "clueless academics")
2. The person who claimed orgasmic effects has a commercial interest in the mushroom
3. You and Ekscentra, who also have a commercial interest in the shrooms, have noticed some self effects but could not replicate the results of the study
4. Neither you or he have noticed any particularly useful effects from women beyond some "euphoria"

Is that about right?

I am all for self-experimentation, but making claims about a product you are going to be selling without being clear about it is disingenuous. Selling something that contains a mushroom species that purportedly has powerful drug-like effects, particularly when you have no idea what mechanism is responsible for such effects, is pretty fucking dumb and irresponsible.

A.

Alphonse couldyou take a look at the last few words of your post and reconsider their appropriatness?

(02-17-2016 12:54 PM)Alphonse Wrote:  So, to clarify:

1. There is no science that supports any of the claims of the original study (you know, science, the stuff that is done by those "clueless academics")
2. The person who claimed orgasmic effects has a commercial interest in the mushroom
3. You and Ekscentra, who also have a commercial interest in the shrooms, have noticed some self effects but could not replicate the results of the study
4. Neither you or he have noticed any particularly useful effects from women beyond some "euphoria"

Is that about right?

A.

1. Correct, but disregarding all anecdotal evidence due to a lack of scientific evidence is equally ignorant to taking the original study as fact.
2. Correct.
3. I have a possible commercial interest if the mushroom proves useful enough to warrant this. Until then, I have none. NP17 has no commercial interest. What I want is for others to go ahead and test this to confirm its usefulness (or lack thereof). It's true that we haven't been able to replicate the results of the study - does that discount its potential usefulness? I'd think not.
4. False. While I've only noticed a body high, euphoria, and some physical changes (raised heartrate) in a few self-effects tests, NP17 has noticed more. Whether this "more" is enough to justify its use is another question. I've noticed far less from every other molecule I've used in terms of self-effects - does that discount their effects on others as well? This is not some definitive claim that this will work for everyone, or that it's guaranteed to affect others. I only included this to argue against discounting this substance on the basis of an article. Until others have tested it, we don't know what the benefits might be across the board.

Renny,

If I could still edit my post, I would remove the fucking but leave behind the dumb and irresponsible.

Ekscentra,

Given that there is no science to explain how the mushroom creates any of the effects you've noticed in yourself (and whatever Np17 may have noticed in his sample), putting it in a commercial product is - I still maintain - irresponsible in the extreme (and I say this as someone who enjoys a relationship with a variety of mushroom based plant allies).

A.

(02-17-2016 12:54 PM)Alphonse Wrote:  I am all for self-experimentation, but making claims about a product you are going to be selling without being clear about it is disingenuous. Selling something that contains a mushroom species that purportedly has powerful drug-like effects, particularly when you have no idea what mechanism is responsible for such effects, is pretty fucking dumb and irresponsible.

A.

I've made no claims on this substance, nor have I said anything beyond that I "might" be interested in using this in a commercial product in the future.

PEA has drug-like effects. Copulins has drug-like effects. Oxytocin has drug-like effects. Whatever is in Bad Wolf has drug-like effects. High doses of Alpha -nol or Beta -nol have drug-like effects. Androstatrione has drug-like effects. Beta-THDOC has drug-like effects. Numerous essential oils have drug-like effects. With most of these things, we have little understanding of their mechanisms of action or for their safety. What exactly are you arguing here? Should we take all of these products off the market as well?

If anything, I'd be a lot more concerned about Androstadienone , which has proven time and again to be psychologically dangerous for some users, which has little history of use (D. indusiata has beenin usein ancient times, being consumed at much larger doses than this), and for which we have no real information on the mechanism of action. Are you really concerned about the public health, or is that just a front for your disdain of "drug-like effects"? If so,you can go ahead and stop using most of the mixes you've been using. Many of those have "drug-like effects" as well.

Shrooms making you happy or relaxed is nothing new.If it in fact makes you high,then sooner or later it is gonna get banned.Sniffing a fungus that is not studied extensively could really mess you up(messing with fungus and bacteria is not a good idea) and if something happened to a person using it,you might go to jail or get sued.There are tons of stuff you can smell to make you high.

Ekscentra,

Crack cocaine causes drug like effects. Frisco speedballs cause drug like effects. Comparing known pheromones, androgens, neurosteroids to an unknown compound with an unidentified method of action is ridiculous.

But feel free to ignore the distinction if it makes you happy.

A.

(02-17-2016 1:20 PM)Alphonse Wrote:  Renny,

If I could still edit my post, I would remove the fucking but leave behind the dumb and irresponsible.

Ekscentra,

Given that there is no science to explain how the mushroom creates any of the effects you've noticed in yourself (and whatever Np17 may have noticed in his sample), putting it in a commercial product is - I still maintain - irresponsible in the extreme (and I say this as someone who enjoys a relationship with a variety of mushroom based plant allies).

A.

I'd agree were it not for its long history of human use. While most of us might not be aware of it, D. indusiata has been enjoyed in some for a very long time. There's more reason to believe its safety than that of Androstenone and many of the other common molecules we put on our skin every day. This is not a new chemical, this is not a poison - this is something that's been ingested or sniffed for thousands of years.

Tell me, would you feel any different were Gary of LAL to do something like this? He's been known to put herbs in a variety of his products, herbs you may have little information about. It's easy to imagine why he's avoided openly sharing this information.

I'm as concerned about the public safety as you are, and for the reasons I've stated above, I don't feel that applies here. If for whatever reason you feel unsafe using an ingredient, avoid it. I intend to label these things when the time comes.

(02-17-2016 1:37 PM)Alphonse Wrote:  Ekscentra,

Crack cocaine causes drug like effects. Frisco speedballs cause drug like effects. Comparing known pheromones, androgens, neurosteroids to an unknown compound with an unidentified method of action is ridiculous.

But feel free to ignore the distinction if it makes you happy.

A.

Comparing known pheromones or D. indusiata to crack cocaine or speedballsis ridiculous. Wr're talking about significantly lower concentrations here. This is not an unknown compound - it has a long history of human use. And, aside from that, we have little or no information on the mechanismof actionof many known pheromones.

There is no distinction. Your analogy is well beyond absurd. For what it's worth,the euphoria I experienced was little more than what clary sage has given me. If you still believe comparing this stuff to crack cocaine is remotely rational, then this discussion is finished.