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Mixing Theory
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zeph
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Post: #1
Mixing Theory
04-17-2010 9:58 PM

I was over at the PT forums and saw that NBully had a new mix calculator out. Was going to download it but then I noticed that he said his new calculator could allow you to make mixes at low concentrations and still get an output at high concentrations. That just isn't possible.

Here is my rundown/guide on mixing. It is simplified IMO but I always loved algebra, so thats relative. I guess its more like explaining how its NOT possible to go from low to high concentration GIVEN THE TOOLS THAT 99% OF US PHERO USERS HAVE AVAILABLE TO US.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concentration
Above link is just explaining concentrations and how it works.
FIRST OFF. If your TOTAL AMOUNT OF PHEROMONES IS X PER SPRAY, all of your INDIVIDUAL PHEROMONES MUST BE IN THAT X AMOUNT.

What I mean is this. If you decide to make a mix, say:

10 mcg none
10 mcg p86
10 mcg TAA
And you want ALL of that per spray

Total is 30/ mcg PER spray correct?

If that is the END result you want, you MUST have -none, P86 , and TAA in concentrations of 30 mcg /spray OR HIGHER. YOU CANNOT START WITH LOWER THAN 30 AND EXPECT IT TO BE MORE CONCENTRATED. IT DEFIES THE LAWS OF PHYSICS. Your amount that comes out of the bottle is SET, so are the ORIGINAL concentrations. The key here is that each spray is SET and so are the concentrations.

Let's set up 2 examples here.

You buy the 3 components in 10 mcg / spray.
You might think "All I have to do is put equal amounts and voila! I have my mix done. I get 10 mcg /spray of each one! WRONG.

Let's say each bottle sprays 1ml PER spray (not actual numbers, just a random easy number). So your 10mcg/spray will only have 10mcg per 1ml of spray right?

You mixed in 1 ml of each component. Now you have 3ml total. 1 ml none, 1 ml taa , 1 ml P86 . We said earlier that each spray has 10mcg each right? So now you have 3 ml, and 30 mcg of pheromones, correct?

But how do you get all of that out when you only have ONE SPRAY coming out of the bottle? Remember the bottle sprays 1ml. So to get ALL of that out, you need THREE sprays. So how much is in EACH spray? ONE THIRD.

So you come down to 3.3 mcg / spray. NOT 10. 30 MCG , 3 SPRAYS. 1 SPRAY = 30mcg/3sprays = 10mcg TOTAL PHEROMONE PER SPRAY.
So your 10 MCG total was made up of EQUAL amounts of none/ TAA /86. 10 MCG / 3 components = 3.3 or 3 1/3.


Now, say you bought them at 30 mcg / spray.

NOW you can add each at a 1 : 1 : 1 ratio.

1 ml of each gives you 3 ml TOTAL right?

since each has 30 mcg , TOTAL MCG OF PHEROMONE IS 90 MCG.

Since each spray is 1ml, you get 30 mcg total because all of the pheromones are in the same concentration. You have 3 ml total. You have 90 MCG of pheromones TOTAL. So EACH SPRAY = 90 MCG / 3 SPRAYS = 30 MCG PER PHEROMONE PER SPRAY. So since you have 3 different pheromones and 1 spray that has 30 MCG pheromones in it TOTAL, it is 30 MCG/3 = 10 MCG PER PHEROMONE PER SPRAY.

The tricky part is when you want varying ratios of pheromones. For example:

5 mcg none
10 mcg TAA
15 mcg P86

TOTAL PHEROMONES: 30 MCG

Say you happened to get them all in 30 mcg, what do you do? You take ratios.

you have 30 mcg of none and have a TOTAL END PRODUCT of 30 mcg of PHEROMONES. This is good. 5/30 = 1/6 So out of the 3ml, 1/6 of that needs to be none. So you add 1/6 x 3ml of none = 1/2 ml

10mcg taa / 30 mcg phero = 1/3. 1/3 x 3ml = 1 ml of TAA

15mcg P86 / 30 mcg phero = 1/2. 1/2 x 3ml = 1.5 ml of P86

TOTAL AMOUNTS:
0.5 ml of NONE
1ml of TAA
1.5 ml of P86
TOTAL: 3ml

0.5 ml of NONE = 15 MCG of none.
1 ml of TAA = 30 MCG of TAA
1.5 ml of P86 = 45 MCG of P86

TOTAL MCG OF PHEROMONES: 90

You have THREE sprays total right?

15 MCG NONE / 3 SPRAYS = 5 MCG NONE
30 MCG TAA / 3 = 10 MCG TAA
45 MCG P86 / 3 = 15 MCG P86

That means each spray will spray ONE THIRD of the amount of EACH pheromone you put into it. This changes with the TOTAL amount of solution AND the concentrations of EACH.

BOTTOM LINE: The concentration of the pheromone you want must be AT LEAST the amount of the TOTAL AMOUNT of pheromones. If your mix has a TOTAL PHEROMONE CONTENT OF 100MCG, YOU NEED CONCENTRATIONS OF EACH PHEROMONE IN AT LEAST 100MCG. The only way around this is if you can SOMEONE GET RID OF THE ALCOHOL IT IS DISSOLVED IN WITHOUT REMOVING THE PHEROMONES.

IF YOU PLAN ON HEAVILY HEAVILY HEAVILY MAKING ALL MIXES OR REPLICATING MIXES, buy ALL your individual pheromones at high concentrations of get them in solid form to dissolve on your own. THERE IS NO WAY you can use a lower concentration and expect it to somehow concentrate itself per spray. Period.

This is why in the store, the Ps and and experimones are recommended for advanced users.

If you want to make your own mix, this is how you should start out.

Come up with how much pheromone you want per spray. Make that list.

x mcg of none
y mcg of a- Androstenol
z mcg of EST
etc, etc.

ADD THEM ALL UP. That is your TOTAL PHEROMONE content PER spray.
Once you have that TOTAL pheromone content, your INDIVIDUAL pheromones must be AT LEAST that much. After that, its math. It only takes like 30 minutes to make a spreadsheet for this and you can enter as many pheromones as you want.

You can ALSO make mixes in HIGH to LOW. Meaning say you have a TOTAL pheromone content of 50 MCG but all of your INDIVIDUAL pheromones are at 100mcg/spray. You can still make it 50mcg but you need to dilute or change ratios.
(This post was last modified: 04-17-2010 10:23 PM by zeph.)
04-17-2010 9:58 PM
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petrucci77
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Post: #2
RE: Mixing Theory
04-18-2010 5:01 AM

Cool, I was trying to bring this fact up yesterday, too... Mrgreen
04-18-2010 5:01 AM
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Snoopyace
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Post: #3
RE: Mixing Theory
04-18-2010 8:46 AM

For the record, when most people (I'm not alone in this) on the forum(s) are referring to something being 'x' times strength, they are referring to the fact that they've multiplied the original phero strength of each individual ingredient by 'x'. Right or not, that is how most of us do it. (Even Steve).

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04-18-2010 8:46 AM
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zeph
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Post: #4
RE: Mixing Theory
04-18-2010 11:21 AM

(04-18-2010 8:46 AM)Snoopyace Wrote:  For the record, when most people (I'm not alone in this) on the forum(s) are referring to something being 'x' times strength, they are referring to the fact that they've multiplied the original phero strength of each individual ingredient by 'x'. Right or not, that is how most of us do it. (Even Steve).

Oh, I'm not saying that you guys are doing it wrong. My first two sentences in this post tells you why I made this thread. It's the simple fact that if you start with a LOWER concentration of something, it is NOT physically possible to INCREASE the concentration without adding more solute or removing the solvent.

I remember Steve's original formula for ICM was in the 30mcg total range. I saw what you used and it was significantly more. Hell, I think most of your components were 50mcg+ of each phero when I believe most of Steve's per spray was only 5mcg. See, THAT is 7x the original strength. Like I said, when I saw the whole lower to higher thing, I had to clarify it and how it's just not possible to do that.

You know what hold on, let me get your numbers if I can find them.
These are the Pheromones you used:
TAA - 50 mcg
Beta -nol - 62.5 mcg
P74 - 62.5 mcg
P93 - 37.5 mcg
A -none 62.5 mcg
TAC - 62.5

This is the original formula:
TAA 4 mcg per spray
Beta Nol 5 MCG PER SPRAY
P93 3 mcg per spary
P74 5 mcg per spray
None 5 mcg per spray
TAC 5 mcg per spray

If anything, it's actually more than 7x the original strength. It looks like (going off top of my head and I just woke up) 12.5x stronger. 50/4 = 12.5 or something. 100/4 = 25, 1/2 of that is 12.5. Again snoopy, this wasn't directed at you, which is why I specifically stated my purpose for the thread. =D

***EDIT***
aw hell, there's another reason. When I first started mixing, I bought everything at 10mcg thinking I'd be ok with multiple sprays. Meaning all my stuff was below the total concentration, so I'd have to spray multiple times to get just 1x str. Initially I thought I'd be ok with that because the cost of getting higher conc. was too much, but now, in retrospect, I should have gotten things in at least 100mcg. I don't have the time, money or the equipment I want to use to make mixes I want to, so I just leave em up to you guys. Just want to make sure that the newbies out there know what to do.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2010 11:27 AM by zeph.)
04-18-2010 11:21 AM
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zeph
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Post: #5
RE: Mixing Theory
04-18-2010 1:25 PM

[Image: Picture1.png]

Sample of the mixing sheet I came up with. These are with Snoopy's numbers. I think there might be something wrong with my required sprays. If I have the time I'll recheck the numbers and excel formulas I entered. It shows how strong it is compared to the original and how many sprays you need to achieve the strength of the original.

*EDIT*
bah, I think its cause I originally made this to achieve original strength from a lower concentration. I'll have to redo a few formulas to change it so it works from low to original and high to original. These numbers are based on AD's 30ml bottles. But either way, the amount you need to add to achieve the original formula is the same.
If there are enough people who are interested, I can make a mix spreadsheet that can tell you exactly how much pheromones you need to add to an oil or other carrier to achieve X str based on how much you want of it. So like if you were wondering "hmm, I want to make Steve's formula. I want to make a total of 10ml in oil form and @ 3x STR." That can be done.
(This post was last modified: 04-18-2010 1:35 PM by zeph.)
04-18-2010 1:25 PM
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Post: #6
RE: Mixing Theory
04-18-2010 3:46 PM

(04-18-2010 1:25 PM)zeph Wrote:  If there are enough people who are interested, I can make a mix spreadsheet that can tell you exactly how much pheromones you need to add to an oil or other carrier to achieve X str based on how much you want of it. So like if you were wondering "hmm, I want to make Steve's formula. I want to make a total of 10ml in oil form and @ 3x STR." That can be done.

I can tell you that I for one would be interested. Thanks! :good3:

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If only closed minds came with closed mouths. Razz
04-18-2010 3:46 PM
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Post: #7
RE: Mixing Theory
04-19-2010 10:51 AM

I would bee keen for the mix formula sheets too. :good3:
04-19-2010 10:51 AM
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zeph
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Post: #8
RE: Mixing Theory
04-19-2010 10:57 AM

Yeah, the fact that Snoopy was interested means that I'll get to making one. I've just been slammed at school and haven't had the time to brush up on my excel formulas. The only thing is that it may not be too "complete 100% newbie" friendly. Just a heads up, this may not be any time soon. I'm taking a class that is taught over 1 year in dent schools in 10 weeks. So I'm kinda dying right now. xD

As soon as I get it done, I'll send it to you both. =D
04-19-2010 10:57 AM
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Post: #9
RE: Mixing Theory
05-07-2010 8:36 AM

cheers thats great !!
05-07-2010 8:36 AM
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