I've been vacillating in my mind over whether Androsterone is the true main alpha male molecule or if Androstenone is the true alpha male molecule.

Nutshell argument for Androstenone
Androstenone can trigger anger from other alpha males because they view you as competition. Of all the molecules, Androstenone is the best at attracting women who are ovulating.

Nutshell argument against Androstenone
Androstenone seems to directly trigger arousal in the brain such as anxiety, anger, attraction, etc... The effects attributed to Androstenone could be caused by arousal of some sort rather than being perceived as an alpha male.

Nutshell argument for Androsterone
Androsterone is known to be a status molecule and is used in a lot of alpha status mixes.

Nutshell argument against Androsterone
The molecule can cause a guy to be perceived as fatherly or a good husband. That's no alpha male or is it?

Anyone have thoughts on this topic?

How does P75 aka BW according to some play into this ?

Me like both.

To me is like asking King if he will
appease the enemy with gifts/food(Androsterone)
or march his army out to battle
steel meets steel (None)
Me say send both.

(10-23-2018 8:46 PM)Lostdreams Wrote:  Me like both.

To me is like asking King if he will
appease the enemy with gifts/food(Androsterone)
or march his army out to battle
steel meets steel (None)
Me say send both.

It's tempting to say Androstenone, but I have to agree with you. Both together seems to fit me. Maybe it depends on how one defines alpha or view it on a spectrum.

I would like to contribute but I'm on my phone and don't have access to a computer or a proper keyboard for days.

Based on years of xperience on single molecules, I came to the conclusion that neither is true. Androsterone is not the provider signal and androstenone is not the attractive signal.

Let me explain, using androsterone by itself on an average healthy male didn't garner the provider role, but more like "an asshole who is gonna throw a fit if I don't do what he wants, he doesn't seem the type you can reason with. An equivalent of an old fart.

Androstenone is more the same but instead of it being the provider signal, it gives off the rough aggressive signal, the nose stuck up his ass arrogant type that woman who are ovulating look for because they have boring ass lives and want to be dominated by that man but once they lose the sexual feeling they don't trust him, won't bring him near their kids, and are scared themselves to open up to him.

Both of these have positives however, but they need to be balanced out and in order for them to achieve the perfect balance on a person, who needs to write down his honest to god opinion of himself, his personality and how do family, friends and strangers act towards him.

Before all these pheromones were discovered, the golden ratio was 3 parts androsterone and 1 part androstenone. This signaled mysterious, aggressive, dominate, dependable, and a leader.

No, I'm not saying using one of these Single molecules won't get you results, it night but only one of two reasons, you are lacking either on of the components or both, a young person will find that using small parts of androsterone will actually make him more attractive because he already has excess amounts of none he produces naturally. While a person his his 40+ will find -none does the trick for him.

But there is always the odd ones out like daddy issues, fetishes, people into being dominated etc.

Also culture plays a role and how you're raised in that culture. In the east, people gravitate more towards the provider types while the west, the opposite is true. However I believe wholeheartedly that a person who find out and applies on himself the perfect balance of those two molecules will find more success than applying solo.

TLDR: too much of one molecule is bad, finding the balance of both whether you produce one naturally and balancing it with a pheromone or applying perfect ratios of both on your body will give you the perfect signal you seek.

Also that does not apply on people who are under the influence. The opposite could be true in that case .

Really depends on what you mean by alpha, to me it primarily means DGAF ( which does NOT mean being a bum / lack of empathy / not caring about anything) and has nothing to do with domination but more about lack of dependency and lack of fear (easily overcome fear).
Might be worth asking this question based on self effects rather than effects on others. For me, whatever is in BW is alpha - I'm not clued up on the molecules enough to say more.

(10-23-2018 8:35 PM)kocik2000 Wrote:  How does P75 aka BW according to some play into this ?

Wait are you saying that Bad wolf is P75?!

(10-23-2018 8:35 PM)kocik2000 Wrote:  How does P75 aka BW according to some play into this ?

How is P75 Bad Wolf?

(10-24-2018 1:41 PM)Paradox Wrote:  How is P75 Bad Wolf?

I am not saying anything for a fact . It's just I remember seeing that statement somewhere thrown around and when reading into P75 effects it seemed like they were similar . Also multiple people who used both stated that whatever is , is in P75 is also present in BW.

I have not tested or tried P75. I am not home but when home can provide links to threads and posts where this was stated. If someone tested both extensively and disagrees with those posters then they have more credibility than what I have stated . It was an opinion that got formed on other's statements.

Weird , did a quick search , only saw one phread on XS forum . Don't know what formed that opinion for me . I could have sworn I saw more than one thread describing the similarities between the two .

Apologies if I am totally incorrect.

If that is the case I am with Macro . Whatever is in BW or combination of is the true alpha to me . No intimidation ever, but I also smile and am outgoing.

https://pherotruth.org/Thread-Bad-Wolf-v...one?page=3

https://pherotruth.org/Thread-Core-Review--10929?page=7

Speculation about p75 in Bad Wolf.