(10-28-2011 12:12 PM)Ultimate Wrote:  Thanks for the feedback. Your wealth of knowledge is fascinating. Maybe you have now silenced the last of the doubters

Lol! DUDE!. Your medical evidence doesn't prove that you got it by inhaling anything, it just shows that you got that chemical in your bloodstream. It is only your word that says you inhaled it. I hope you get better, I really do!. But I fail to see how you have been using pheromones for years with no ill effects yet you got a medical condition and blame it on pheromones.

What Alpha Dream presented is a theory of what might have happened if, and only IF, Androtics Direct(AD) got it wrong somewhere. I stopped buying from AD because I hate their business model and I will never support them in anything, if anything, I will boycot it, but AD is a big company and have very proffesional people who formulate their products.

You might call me a Hater but the time you started that thread over there is the same time alot of trolls putting things in Ad and got banned for it.

Your medical condition I believe, but the cause I don't. Unless you drank some from that bottle, AD has more things to lose as a result of carelessness, and I don't think it's from inhaling their product.

Yet again, you are with the medical condition and I'm not so believe whatever you want to help you sleep at night. Alpha Dreams gave you suggestions on how to go about and find out if that product that caused this is defunct and the only way to prove your case is bringing in evidence of the cause.

You got all you need now that basically answers your thread. You got flamed, positive suggestions and prayers to get cured. I don't see the point in trolling farther now. Get medical help, they are the only ones who can benefit you now and probably a good lawyer(after you find the product is defunct).

I didn't want to write anything here but man, you know how to push my buttons.

Peace.

I'm still not at all convinced that the problem Ultimate describes is caused by exposure to androstanone.

1st - Why do you believe that the products you used contain androstanone?

2nd - 17beta-hydroxy-androstanone is an anabolic steroid that is illegal in most western countries, and so highly unlikely to be included in any pheromone products even if it does have pheromonal properties. The androstanone referred to as a pheromone is 5α-androstan-3-one, a much weaker androgen which is legal.

3rd - Even if you were being exposed to the steroid 17beta-hydroxy-androstanone, why would it bind to your DNA? Bodybuilders used to take that stuff to build muscle. It has an androgenic effect, not a carcinogenic one. The fact that it is disfiguring your DNA to me indicates that some other medical problem is causing a dysregulation of your production and/or utilization of this natural endogenous steroid.


EDIT: just read Chris' reply. He presents a real possibility, but if that possibility is not the case then my above remarks stand.

(10-28-2011 1:10 PM)dbot Wrote:  I'm still not at all convinced that the problem Ultimate describes is caused by exposure to androstanone.

1st - Why do you believe that the products you used contain androstanone?

2nd - 17beta-hydroxy-androstanone is an anabolic steroid that is illegal in most western countries, and so highly unlikely to be included in any pheromone products even if it does have pheromonal properties. The androstanone referred to as a pheromone is 5α-androstan-3-one, a much weaker androgen which is legal.

3rd - Even if you were being exposed to the steroid 17beta-hydroxy-androstanone, why would it bind to your DNA? Bodybuilders used to take that stuff to build muscle. It has an androgenic effect, not a carcinogenic one. The fact that it is disfiguring your DNA to me indicates that some other medical problem is causing a dysregulation of your production and/or utilization of this natural endogenous steroid.


EDIT: just read Chris' reply. He presents a real possibility, but if that possibility is not the case then my above remarks stand.

1. I already knew for a fact I developed chemical sensitivity from pheromones. Having androstanone in my blood just proves it for the benefit of other people.

2. I've never taken steroids. My reactions began with, and are most extreme with, pheromones.

3. I dont know WHY it would. Maybe it just felt like being naughty? What a stupid question

(10-28-2011 1:24 PM)Ultimate Wrote:  1. I already knew for a fact I developed chemical sensitivity from pheromones. Having androstanone in my blood just proves it for the benefit of other people.

2. I've never taken steroids. My reactions began with, and are most extreme with, pheromones.

3. I dont know WHY it would. Maybe it just felt like being naughty? What a stupid question

1) How on earth would you know that for a fact? My point is that the androstanone in your blood is not a pheromone product.

2) Your body produces and uses steroids naturally.

3) What a stupid answer. This is nothing more than an argument from ignorance. My point is that there must be a biological reason why a steroid molecule would be latching onto your DNA. Chris provides one possibility; I'm sure there are more that neither of us is aware of.

I'll appreciate you being less snotty in future replies.

Ultimate, if you actually have a condition then I can understand the frustration and hope you resolve these problems, but there is no need to go all out on an offensive assault.

It seems you went about the same way on the other forum and that didn't end very well so maybe you need to take a different approach in asking for advice and recommendations.

I'm not in any way knowledgeable in the field of science of pheromones so I can't really advise you on what you need to do but your communication skills could be better, just saying...

Firstly, I wish you good health! I hope your condition improves swiftly. Maybe a heavy metal detox would help? Like the kind they do for mercury poisoning?
Secondly, this is an interesting theory to explore. I have felt interactions with pheromones and alcohol, so I don't know what else could be possible. You do have to understand the toxicity of fragrances even present in products formulated for newborn infants though. My guess would be that any of the aldehydes or any other various chemicals present in carrier fragrance could combine with & create toxicity in sensitive individuals. I don't think most people even know about the reproductive toxicity & carcinogenic side effects they're risking every time they spritz their favorite cologne for a date! With that being said: I don't see a lawsuit against AD being a practical idea, just for the simple fact that you willingly sprayed yourself with a mystery chemical. If you were going after anything carried in a health food store than maybe the FDA would come along to bully the company..*j/k Seriously, though the cosmetics industry is self-regulated fully within the law in the U.S.. It's even worse with fragrance companies, they're legally allowed to keep their formulas secret to protect their intellectual property rites. Basically cosmetic companies are on the honor system here, unless they use a chemical on the banned list, there isn't a single thing the court system can do to help you. Sometimes not even then, as the companies making lipstick seem to get by with using lead in their red color formulas. I honestly don't think any lawyer would touch your case unless you had the funds to pay them upfront. Sorry I didn't make it earlier, my 4 yr.old is sick today. & thank you for turning teh thread back to civility! Again, Ultimate, I wish you a speedy recovery.
Oh by the way, this made me chuckle!:

(10-28-2011 10:57 AM)as33156 Wrote:  On a side note:
I normally put my mones right under my nostrils sniff for a few seconds each one like they are coke before I put them on in the morning time trying to get self effects fast.
I won't be doing that anymore. Better safe then sorry.

I may have to quit doing that with the 'mones, but at least I can continue doing that with my real crack (LP perfumes), lol.

~~~~~~~~

(10-28-2011 1:42 PM)chief101 Wrote:  Ultimate, if you actually have a condition then I can understand the frustration and hope you resolve these problems, but there is no need to go all out on an offensive assault.

It seems you went about the same way on the other forum and that didn't end very well so maybe you need to take a different approach in asking for advice and recommendations.

I'm not in any way knowledgeable in the field of science of pheromones so I can't really advise you on what you need to do but your communication skills could be better, just saying...

I have been nice when asking people for advice. I've been nice acknowledging constructive or impartial feedback. Please show me where I havent. I havent been nice to people illogically refuting scientific facts and leading expert consultants knowledge.

(10-28-2011 1:59 PM)Ultimate Wrote:  I have been nice when asking people for advice. I've been nice acknowledging constructive or impartial feedback. Please show me where I havent. I havent been nice to people illogically refuting scientific facts and leading expert consultants knowledge.

Opinions are like assholes, everyone's got one. You have to respect other people's opinions even though you may not agree with them. Being humble is the best approach. That's all I meant, wish you well.

Why would an autoimmune response cause postural headaches?
Or is the term allergy placed around too loosely?