Here's the situation. Last night Ail from Love Potion posted a thread in this forum saying she had just posted some very important info about men using copulins. Here is the link she provided: http://lovepotion.invisionzone.com/index...t&p=154882

Subsequent to her posting that thread, a substantial number of responses were posted by the members here, generally disagreeing and discrediting what she had to say and criticizing her for linking to a forum that required registration before it could be viewed.

This morning Ail came back and deleted the thread that she posted here, which means that she deleted all the responses to it as well. I call that censorship, and was surprised that the forum software even allowed her to do it. In response to that, I decided to syndicate the rant that Ail had linked to so that members here could freely view it. I went ahead and syndicated the interchange that ensued between her and myself as well, so that members of this forum would not have to register on that forum just to see what was going on. You can see that entire thread here: http://pherotruth.org/Thread-Ail-s-Post-About-Copulins

Mark and Beccah decided without any discussion that they wanted to get rid of this thread to protect Love Potion, since they both have warm fuzzies for it. I get that, and I have nothing against Love Potion at all. In fact, Mara has been very nice throughout this debacle, publicly stating on her own forum that she agreed that Ail was being unreasonable.

This issue is not about Ail -- I give two shits about her. The issue is about censorship. And seeing as how this forum touts itself as "The ONLY Uncensored Pheromone Forum On The NET", I would expect it to be pretty difficult to get a post censored around here.

Mark & Beccah locked the thread and posted using the Forum Staff account that it had violated the forum's posting policy. They asked me to edit my posts to remove the quoted portions from the Love Potion board. I told them that not only would I not edit my posts, but I would unlock the thread so that members could continue to openly discuss the issues as they would rightly expect to be able to do on an uncensored forum. I told them that I am not willing to be an admin here if the policies against censorship are not going to be followed.

If you look through that PT thread where I syndicated the conversation from Love Potion (http://pherotruth.org/Thread-Ail-s-Post-...Copulins), you will see that I barely editorialized at all, and I certainly did not defame or abuse Ail in any way. I was civil both here and on the Love Potion forum.

@Mark and Beccah. I challenge you to publicly answer the question you have refused to answer in private.

In what way is it abusive to directly quote what has been said in the chronological and unedited fashion that I did in that thread?

Either you're willing to answer that question, or I suggest you change the tagline of this forum, because it certainly is not uncensored.

(09-01-2011 8:04 PM)dbot Wrote:  Here's the situation. Last night Ail from Love Potion posted a thread in this forum saying she had just posted some very important info about men using copulins. Here is the link she provided: http://lovepotion.invisionzone.com/index...t&p=154882

Subsequent to her posting that thread, a substantial number of responses were posted by the members here, generally disagreeing and discrediting what she had to say and criticizing her for linking to a forum that required registration before it could be viewed.

This morning Ail came back and deleted the thread that she posted here, which means that she deleted all the responses to it as well. I call that censorship, and was surprised that the forum software even allowed her to do it. In response to that, I decided to syndicate the rant that Ail had linked to so that members here could freely view it. I went ahead and syndicated the interchange that ensued between her and myself as well, so that members of this forum would not have to register on that forum just to see what was going on. You can see that entire thread here: http://pherotruth.org/Thread-Ail-s-Post-About-Copulins

Mark and Beccah decided without any discussion that they wanted to get rid of this thread to protect Love Potion, since they both have warm fuzzies for it. I get that, and I have nothing against Love Potion at all. In fact, Mara has been very nice throughout this debacle, publicly stating on her own forum that she agreed that Ail was being unreasonable.

This issue is not about Ail -- I give two shits about her. The issue is about censorship. And seeing as how this forum touts itself as "The ONLY Uncensored Pheromone Forum On The NET", I would expect it to be pretty difficult to get a post censored around here.

Mark & Beccah locked the thread and posted using the Forum Staff account that it had violated the forum's posting policy. They asked me to edit my posts to remove the quoted portions from the Love Potion board. I told them that not only would I not edit my posts, but I would unlock the thread so that members could continue to openly discuss the issues as they would rightly expect to be able to do on an uncensored forum. I told them that I am not willing to be an admin here if the policies against censorship are not going to be followed.

If you look through that PT thread where I syndicated the conversation from Love Potion (http://pherotruth.org/Thread-Ail-s-Post-...Copulins), you will see that I barely editorialized at all, and I certainly did not defame or abuse Ail in any way. I was civil both here and on the Love Potion forum.

@Mark and Beccah. I challenge you to publicly answer the question you have refused to answer in private.

In what way is it abusive to directly quote what has been said in the chronological and unedited fashion that I did in that thread?

Either you're willing to answer that question, or I suggest you change the tagline of this forum, because it certainly is not uncensored.

K, well I would just copy & paste what I had initially posted in the admins. forum, if it hadn't "mysteriously" disappeared Dbot, but since I have a life, I don't have time to recall it word for word & type it again.

Quote:Yes an open discussion about a thread that another member posted, then changed their mind and deleted. More like retaliation and abusing the other member, one of the very few causes for censorship, as is clearly stated in the Member Posting Policy!

dbot violated that policy, then refused to edit his posts, went against a majority administrative decision, then accused us of censoring, even though his thread was posted only to cause harm another member and a clear policy violation.

He is no longer an admin on this forum and a public statement to that effect will be made shortly.

If some of you disagree with this decision, I am sorry, but we will not allow members to harm, harass or abuse other members, especially when that member is an administrator.

-Mark's post from the closed thread.

This sums the issue up entirely. Please stop dragging the whole forum into this disagreement between us. This decision was made with a majority of 2 admins-1, considering there was a total of three. I in no way condone the post Ail took it upon herself to make, but they were never directly posted here. The thread containing the link to go look was deleted. You know what? Those posts are still available at their point of origin: http://lovepotion.invisionzone.com/index...ntry155032
Also, yes I incorrectly assumed that this area was publicly available without registering earlier, but you know what? I simply communicated to Mara that the area needed to be moved for accessibility reasons & she made it so. So really, this is a moot point.

So, what's the harm in having the material quoted here? In what way is that abusive?
And why close the thread over here, thus preventing people from freely discussing it?

I just answered you (again), I'm not going to keep answering the same question repeatedly, when you refuse to state why it's necessary to copy & paste posts that are readily available at their point of origin. In fact, even if you did, I would still be done with this conversation. ~Many happy returns to you Dbot, Beccah~

You didn't answer the question. You reiterated Mark's statement that it was abusive, but you have never answered the question of why you think that is the case. Why don't you waste just another moment of your precious time to answer this simple, straightforward question in an equally straightforward way?

OK, I'll step up to that challange and I'm sure Beccah will too.

1. You were PM'd by Beccah and asked to remove the quotes from the post that Ail had deleted and why. You fired back with a scathing reply and refusal to do so.

2. Beccah posted in the administrators private forum, stating: she felt it was OK to post a link to Ail's post and saying that she didn't care for the way you were attacked, but felt that Mara handled the situation on her forum. She went on to ssay she didn't understand why you felt the need to regurgitate the the exchanges in their entirety, after they had already been resolved on the other forum.

2. I stepped in at that point and posted in our private forum that I was in agreement with Beccah, and that thee only reason I could see for even starting the thread was to retaliate against Ail for attacking you over at Love Potion and to retaliate against her for deleting the thread she posted here. You fired back with a refusal to do so, and challanged me to show you were you violated the Posting Policy, which I did.

3. You came back and tried to defend your position by saying that "She opened the door". And while that may be true she decided it was a bad idea and delted the thread to close the door. You then went on to post again saying that you strongly disagreed with both of us and said it would be dishonest to edit or remove anything. Then a third post saying what we were asking was bullhshit and pointed oput again the Ail started it, and further saying it was censorship and you strongly disagreed.

4. Beccah then stepped in and reiterated what I first said. She also pointed out that Ail had not called anyone out by name until you engaged her over at Love Potion, then I'm guessing you bitched about my "Reply to Diane" and post about having been banned from pherotalk. She then wrapped it up by saying tht from your replies she assumed you were refusing to edit the thread yourself.

5. You then came back and replied with a post that basicallyt said "Well you didn't see what she said first, you know before she realized it was a bad idea and deleted it". Then went on to say that not only were you not going to delete it, but unless we could show you where you violated the posting policy you were going to reopen the thread and continue the discussion, and once again made the censorship allegation.

Before I go on at this point, let me REMIND you that you were the one that stepped in teling us that Chris PM'd you about deleting one of his posts, and you did so, then after reading the thread decided ON YOUR OWN to put it into moderation because members were outing companies and other members. NO discussion first, just an action that YOU and YOu alone decided to take.

6. Ok, so back to the point at hand: I then posted again to say that the post was obviously intended to start a flamewar with another member, and was a violation by abusing another member, and gave a link to the policy and paragraph number. I went on to say that while you may not consider it abusive if Beccah and I did, there just might be some other members that would as well. I went on to point out that we were in majority agreement and that if you didn't agree to edit out the qoutes you were directly efusing to follow an administrative decision, and I went on to say that if thaat were the case you would not need to resign as an admin because we would remove you. And, I went on to say that neither of us wanted that and that we both liked you, but per your own admission sometimes you an go overboard, and that this was one of those times.

7. You responded by asking me to explain what was abusive about your thread, and another post about having received complaints from several members about her link pointing to a thread that they couldn't read. This was long after she had already deleted the thread, at which point any links that were in it shouldn't have mattered one single bit.

8. I responded by posting and reminding you that I did not see the original thread would would review everything once again. And I went on to say that while Ail may have been wrong in posting her thread, and I didn't know whether she was or not because I didn't see it, and nodoby reported it nor was anything said in our private forum. I went on to say that her actions may have even waranted an administrative action, but again I didn't know because NOTHING was said. And, I wrapped it up by saying that regardless of everything else 2 wrongs do not make a right, and asked again why you would even bother to do so after the thread had already been deleted

9. Beccah stepped in and posted a reply, which mysteriously disappeared, then another saying tht you hadn't answered her question but just responded iwth another of your own. And, she went on to say once again that the issue had already been resolved and there was no reason to regugitate it over here again.

10. YOu responded with a FUCK YOU by not even bothering to respond or wait for me to go over everything again. Instead you just reopened the thread and started writing this one.

Abuse toward another member equals censorship, as per the posted policy. You actions have been childlike, not much different than a kid throwing a temper tantrum because his mommy yelled at him, and this whole issue was caused because you got pissed off about what someone said to you on another forum and you were GOING to get back at them for it here, becasue it had already been resolved over there.

Again, if any of our members don't like it or feel tht we are censoring, ask yourself how you would like it if you were the one dbot was retaliating against and whetehr you would expect the forum to stop it or not.

And no, I am not going to cllose this thread too. I welcome any member who questions the forums' integrity or wants to challange it.

what I won't tolerate is any member abusing another, forum administrators excluded, challange us all you want! We will not censor when it is not required and we will defend any decisions made, and we are open to being questioned about any of those decisions.

Unensored does not mean that its ok to flame, slander, defame or otherwise abuse other members, nor to use the forum as a bashing ground . The uncensorsed assumes that members will abide by respectful adult like behavior!

Mark, so what you're saying is that directly quoting a conversation from another forum

is somehow an act of retaliation?

Let me reiterate my question: In what way is that harmful or abusive?

I didn't call this person names, I didn't insult her, I didn't encourage others to insult her. I didn't "flame, slander, defame or otherwise abuse." I simply quoted the conversation from the other forum. Please answer my simple question, above, in bold.