(10-09-2009 06:50 AM)renny Wrote:  Hey Zeph, I completely understand your feelings and thought of the same things. I've sort of worked it through in my mind though and realized that removing posts or deliberately getting banned would do little that was positive. I don't...emphatically don't think Jasmin and Michael are bad people. They may not be running their company the way I would run mine, but it is their company, their vision, and their responsibility. I don't tell my fishing customers everything that I am doing or not doing behind the scenes, I sometimes float ideas that never come to fruition, I make errors in judgement that result in hard feelings. I've even wrongly accused innocent customers of shoplifting and banned them from my store. It's an imperfect world.

The fact remains that I like their products. I like interacting with people on their forum. So , I'll remember when I'm on pherotalk that I'm playing on their playground and be thankful that Mark has generously lent part of his backyard to us so we can play with toys that Michael and Jasmin don't allow in their yard.

Yeah, I understand that. But I just feel like some of the people they've banned were only trying to help. Eldros for example. There were some forum members who really wanted a chat feature in real time. All he did was set up his OWN chat to talk about HIS OWN experiences that were NO WAY related to PT and got a whole bunch of shit from PT and a ban, although it was removed. But by then it was pretty much too late and he hasn't really been on there often. A lot of the people I got to know over at PT are either gone or banned. I don't see much reason to associate myself with the PT forums anymore, cept maybe for introductions seeing as how I can't afford pheros atm. xD

And yeah, I know its their rules, its their backyard. Which is why I don't feel like posting there anymore. I'm just tired of the empty promises and some of the things they have going on there. If I don't like their backyard and playground, I don't have to go there and play, I'm not being forced to. When I find it fun again, I'll probably go back to posting there. ^_^

(10-09-2009 02:01 PM)zeph Wrote:  Yeah, I understand that. But I just feel like some of the people they've banned were only trying to help. Eldros for example. There were some forum members who really wanted a chat feature in real time. All he did was set up his OWN chat to talk about HIS OWN experiences that were NO WAY related to PT and got a whole bunch of shit from PT and a ban, although it was removed. But by then it was pretty much too late and he hasn't really been on there often. A lot of the people I got to know over at PT are either gone or banned. I don't see much reason to associate myself with the PT forums anymore, cept maybe for introductions seeing as how I can't afford pheros atm. xD

I think I've pretty well had it with pherotalk too! After Gegogi posted this thread, I came within a click from wiping out my entire journal and making a couple of posts that would have surely got myself banned, but after a talk with Bella and a night to sleep on it I realized that it would be better to leave it up and let people wonder why myself and the others that used to post a lot and built up pretty good reputations for ourselves just disappeared.

I believe that I'm pretty much done buying their products anyway, because for the last couple of orders I placed the products just don't seem to work as well and I'm wondering if they've been dilluted or are missing compounds that Androtics ran out of! So, advanced user status means nothing to me.

Lord knows I'm not the biggest fan of Androtics right now, but I will jump to Steve's defense on the Eldros thing:

Eldros was told that it was fine to setup his own chat , but was asked not to use Androtics or Pherotalk in the name, which he did comply with. When he posted about his chat room he was told he could not use the forum to leer people away or over the chat room.

He then started PM'ing members about the chat room. Steve temporarily banned him for it, and within a day or 2 he was ready to reinstate Eldros. He and I were on the phone talking about it and he asked me if I had Eldros' phone number. I instant messaged Eldros and told him Steve wanted to talk to him and asked for his phone number, which he gave me and I passed along to Steve. But, when Steve tried to call him the number he gave was disconnected!

A bunch of bullshit, but at least they've shown their true colors. There are no sales here, no products of our own to market, we have no commercial intent. Hell, there aren't even ads here for fucks sake (Huge props to Mark for putting the burden on his shoulders ). Whatever, I found that PT was flooded with more threads regarding self-esteem and 'oneitis' threads than useful pheromone reports. I really miss the gems that tacitus dropped, I wish he could come back. There seems to be a large drop in 'conceptual' discussions on pheromones, 'conceptual' meaning, in this case, what emotions/behaviors/archetypes/instinctual reactions are these pheromones accessing/triggering in the mind/body? How is this pheromone interpreted in the mind of the target? How is that impression communicated by their behavior? Essentially, if I put in this input, how will it be processed, and what will be the output?

The more interesting aspect of pheromones to me, is how will it be processed? How will it be interpreted in the mind? All the talk of 'super mix' this and 'ultimate sexy combo' that is really old and boring now. Anyways, thankfully we have a drama-free place now. So I'm dropping this in my mind and replacing it with shit that's actually useful. Like my To-Do list.

(10-09-2009 02:22 PM)mark-in-dallas Wrote:  I think I've pretty well had it with pherotalk too! After Gegogi posted this thread, I came within a click from wiping out my entire journal and making a couple of posts that would have surely got myself banned, but after a talk with Bella and a night to sleep on it I realized that it would be better to leave it up and let people wonder why myself and the others that used to post a lot and built up pretty good reputations for ourselves just disappeared.

I believe that I'm pretty much done buying their products anyway, because for the last couple of orders I placed the products just don't seem to work as well and I'm wondering if they've been dilluted or are missing compounds that Androtics ran out of! So, advanced user status means nothing to me.

Lord knows I'm not the biggest fan of Androtics right now, but I will jump to Steve's defense on the Eldros thing:

Eldros was told that it was fine to setup his own chat , but was asked not to use Androtics or Pherotalk in the name, which he did comply with. When he posted about his chat room he was told he could not use the forum to leer people away or over the chat room.

He then started PM'ing members about the chat room. Steve temporarily banned him for it, and within a day or 2 he was ready to reinstate Eldros. He and I were on the phone talking about it and he asked me if I had Eldros' phone number. I instant messaged Eldros and told him Steve wanted to talk to him and asked for his phone number, which he gave me and I passed along to Steve. But, when Steve tried to call him the number he gave was disconnected!

You know, none of is unfamiliar to me, since they did the same sort of stuff to me. They told me I could set up the tester's thread for my copulins, and then blew a lid over it. Michael threw a fit in PM, telling me they were about to fire an employee and sue that employee for exactly what I was doing. But when I took that to heart, and removed the offending thread and halted the testing, they threw a fit about that. The real issue, I believe, was more about keeping real actions hidden. And the fantasy one sided bull shit conversations Harris posted confirmed that. They don't want anyone to know what is really going on.

To me it seems like just more of them cutting their own nose off to spite their faces... the same with removing the links to here and any mention of this site, where people are actually promoting their products. And just like the chat would have only benefited them, anything coming out of the copulins testers' thread would have only boosted the sales of any of their products that would have been containing my 100% natural cops.

And I've heard about other people with the same kinds of experiences of being given the go ahead (or request to do something, in some cases) and then being reamed out for doing those things, who choose not to talk about it publicly. So these aren't isolated incidences.

In my case the only thing that I asked for is for a defined contractual relationship. They manipulated, played dumb, ignored questions, and did everything in their power to maintain an illusion, while offering nothing concrete. Harris wanted me to lie and post publicly that I was an employee of Androtics rather than halt the testing. That was when I decided to leave. All of this is documented in PM's.

When I left, I did so in a way that they had room and opportunity to save face and do what was right. Instead, they wrote a bunch of fantasy conversations that never took place, tried to paint me as a psychopath, wrote disparaging posts about copulins and copulin users, banned me and labeled me as a commercial spammer... because I didn't bow to the manipulation, refused to lie for them, and wouldn't be gamed.

You know, when someone creates an environment where those in charge operate only on manipulation and mistrust, while spewing stuff they don't even believe in, all they can do is create a reality they say they don't want. In my opinion they haven't learned that lesson, because they keep doing the same dysfunctional things over and over again. And for those reasons I don't find anything they say to be trustworthy.

And it is a crying shame, because some of the products they provide are very good. But when it comes to having to be a cult member in order to be a forum member, I'm gonna have to opt out, good product or not.

Diane

(10-10-2009 10:57 PM)Diane999 Wrote:  ...
When I left, I did so in a way that they had room and opportunity to save face and do what was right. Instead, they wrote a bunch of fantasy conversations that never took place, tried to paint me as a psychopath, wrote disparaging posts about copulins and copulin users, banned me and labeled me as a commercial spammer...

Any links to this stuff? I haven't been following the forums too closely.

Gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate. Bodhi svaha!

(10-11-2009 12:41 AM)Gone with the Wind Wrote:  Any links to this stuff? I haven't been following the forums too closely.

I'm banned, so I can't provide anything... but if it is still there and hasn't been tampered with it would be in my tester's journal in the ladies' journal section.

But just search copulins that will get you a better idea of the ruckus if it hasn't all been erased.

Diane

Quote:Diane writes, "You know, when someone creates an environment where those in charge operate only on manipulation and mistrust, while spewing stuff they don't even believe in, all they can do is create a reality they say they don't want."

Oh come on, please have some compassion and don't blame them! After years of breathing in lab vapors and dangerous hog pheromones, something fundamental was damaged and they know not what they do. They actually think they can warp reality and move between multiple universes...

(10-11-2009 03:27 AM)Gegogi Wrote:  Oh come on, please have some compassion and don't blame them! After years of breathing in lab vapors and dangerous hog pheromones, something fundamental was damaged and they know not what they do. They actually think they can warp reality and move between multiple universes...

You're right, Geogogi. And who knows, maybe they can.

Diane

You know its funny; everyone who's posted in this thread has been among the strongest supporters of Androtics and the most valuable posters in their forum. Each of us are passionate in our pursuits and we are unwilling to bow down, be lied to or manipulated. Now we're here talking about how far off course they've strayed from everything they professed and promised, and how unhappy we are with their actions!

We were all once very dedicated in our testing and reporting. We had a good understanding of the molecules and mixes and we provided detailed and accurate reports. But, it appears that isn't what they really want, at least not anymore. The mixes are changed at will when they run out of one molecule or another, or they decide that a certain molecule is to expensive to use, and they bribe the kiss asses off with huge gift certificates to keep them towing the line.

We started this forum simply to have a place to talk about whatever we wanted, without fear of being censored or coerced. We've included a section for reporting on Androtics products and even a link to their store. On registration new members are directed to a page asking them not to use the PM systems of other forums to recruit people to this forum, and we have tried to rise above the pettiness and immaturity, yet I've heard us being referred to as the Evil Empire!

On the other hand, Mara over at Love Potions thinks what we're doing is great and wants only to help us and see us succeed. And, she's offered to put together exclusive sample packs for us to give out to new members, or some sort of discount for our members. We will end up doing something, once we come up with something solid and the administrators are in agreement.

I would love for Jasmin to stop in and read this thread. Not that it would change her way of thinking or make her realize that it's not us that are the bad guys, but just to step out of fantasy land for a minute and get a bit of a reality check!

(10-11-2009 02:57 AM)Diane999 Wrote:  ...I can't provide anything... it would be in my tester's journal in the ladies' journal section.

I dug up the old thread. To save anyone else the trouble, it's at http://www.pheromonetalk.com/womens-jour...33457.html .

As far as I can see, two people of good intent got at cross purposes, and the fallout is causing a lot of ruckus. Obviously there was behind-the-scene interaction not visible in the thread. However, it seems that individuals on both sides of the divide still value their own self-integrity, and both sides still probably have common interests in working together. I think I'll try to avoid flaming either side. That way I can piss everyone off equally.

A legal agreement often does put things on a more well-defined basis.

Gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate. Bodhi svaha!