(06-27-2015 4:23 PM)halo0073 Wrote:  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17287500

Yes, that's what I found too. Could it be something other than cortisol that's causing Androstadienone depression in men, or is it simply a difference in how we respond to cortisol? I suppose we still don't know.

It definitely could be. And the difference in how it's released etc. Too many variables to say for sure. All I can say for sure is that I have experimented with very high doses of Androstadienone on both me and my BF. In secret over many months and years. I am talking dosing him without him knowing. I have also struggled with various forms of depression for most of my life. I think I can understand pretty well the Androstadienone effect on men who are susceptible. I have talked to many many guys who experience. So trust me when I say that the effects neno had on me at tiny doses were very extreme. I am talking uncontrollable sobbing for entire nights on end. I don't cry easily either. This shit is dramatic. It made my BFF have similar out of control emotional reactions. Are we the minority? Totally could be. Not many women have played with it. I am just saying beware before you try to pick up chicks with this stuff on because you could definitely bite off more than you could chew. Especially on an emotional drunk chick from a bar.

(06-27-2015 4:44 PM)halo0073 Wrote:  It definitely could be. And the difference in how it's released etc. Too many variables to say for sure. All I can say for sure is that I have experimented with very high doses of Androstadienone on both me and my BF. In secret over many months and years. I am talking dosing him without him knowing. I have also struggled with various forms of depression for most of my life. I think I can understand pretty well the Androstadienone effect on men who are susceptible. I have talked to many many guys who experience. So trust me when I say that the effects neno had on me at tiny doses were very extreme. I am talking uncontrollable sobbing for entire nights on end. I don't cry easily either. This shit is dramatic. It made my BFF have similar out of control emotional reactions. Are we the minority? Totally could be. Not many women have played with it. I am just saying beware before you try to pick up chicks with this stuff on because you could definitely bite off more than you could chew. Especially on an emotional drunk chick from a bar.

Yes, I'm already aware of these effects - I've experienced them both as a pheromone and, worse-so, using it as a supplement sublingually. It does feel like Androstadienone depression to me in that it's this baseless form of depression. It forces you to be depressed, though not about anything in particular. I used to be prone to depression, but not anymore. Nowadays, Androstadienone and neno are about the only things that can make me depressed, neno especially.

Mine didn't feel like depression. It felt like I was in urgent distress. Maybe it's just the differences in our other hormones. That's why I would not wear this around women.

(06-27-2015 6:48 PM)halo0073 Wrote:  Mine didn't feel like depression. It felt like I was in urgent distress. Maybe it's just the differences in our other hormones. That's why I would not wear this around women.

Could be - what was the lowest dose you tested?

Thanks for sharing that guys. Cortisol being the stress hormone, and -dienone being conforting to women, I would never had expected it to increase cortisol in women. confusing...

M.

I just read through this thread and like to adress some points:

"Cortisol" is the stress hormone"
Yes and no. As always, it depends on so many factors how such a substance affects an individual at any given mometn. When females that are exposed to Androstadienone and then feel excited, positively nervous as in "butterflies in belly" Cortisol has a stimulating, EUstressing effect.
This has been discussed many times with regards to Pheromones and it's also why some suspect Cortisol-lowering substances when used as Pheromones would prevent the Androstadienone crush.

JB20 posted an interesting Study about paradoxical effects of Preg at the beginning of th thread. It's all expalined there ... For Preg to show positive self effects, high doses seem necessary ...100mcg+

I have every reason to believe that Preg, when inhaled, metabolizes to Allopregnanolone in certain brain regions where the required enzymes are present. When that happens, you either get a positive or negative self-effect experience, depending on the dosage and the individual. Thes tudy makes very clear that there are up to ~33% of individuals that get "negative" self-effects from low to moderate amounts of allopreg. Since it is not known how much of inhaled Preg converts to allo, it is safe to assume that high doses are safer to reach positive self effects.

I think Preg and Allopreg are responsible for many mixes that seem inconsistent to users - and why some products work for some people and not for others, especially with regards to selfies. Even a person that gets good selfies from a low dose application of a certain phero can experience adverse effects with higher applications - and it depends on his individual neuroendocrine situation at the moment of application. This is true for any neurosteroid - DHEA, DHEA-S, Androsterone, Androstenol and so forth, though those are generally more "tameable" and experience shows that there seem to exist a broader amplitude of predictable dosage-effects.
Allopregnano, Preg-Sulf and Tehadoc on the other hand .... I cannot see a real beneficial use for them in phero blends.

I no longer believe that there is something like a ever-working, infallible "consistent" phero-mix when we talk about self-effects.

(11-22-2016 7:19 AM)GoergeFocky Wrote:  I just read through this thread and like to adress some points:

"Cortisol" is the stress hormone"
Yes and no. As always, it depends on so many factors how such a substance affects an individual at any given mometn. When females that are exposed to Androstadienone and then feel excited, positively nervous as in "butterflies in belly" Cortisol has a stimulating, EUstressing effect.
This has been discussed many times with regards to Pheromones and it's also why some suspect Cortisol-lowering substances when used as Pheromones would prevent the Androstadienone crush.

JB20 posted an interesting Study about paradoxical effects of Preg at the beginning of th thread. It's all expalined there ... For Preg to show positive self effects, high doses seem necessary ...100mcg+

I have every reason to believe that Preg, when inhaled, metabolizes to Allopregnanolone in certain brain regions where the required enzymes are present. When that happens, you either get a positive or negative self-effect experience, depending on the dosage and the individual. Thes tudy makes very clear that there are up to ~33% of individuals that get "negative" self-effects from low to moderate amounts of allopreg. Since it is not known how much of inhaled Preg converts to allo, it is safe to assume that high doses are safer to reach positive self effects.

I think Preg and Allopreg are responsible for many mixes that seem inconsistent to users - and why some products work for some people and not for others, especially with regards to selfies. Even a person that gets good selfies from a low dose application of a certain phero can experience adverse effects with higher applications - and it depends on his individual neuroendocrine situation at the moment of application. This is true for any neurosteroid - DHEA, DHEA-S, Androsterone, Androstenol and so forth, though those are generally more "tameable" and experience shows that there seem to exist a broader amplitude of predictable dosage-effects.
Allopregnano, Preg-Sulf and Tehadoc on the other hand .... I cannot see a real beneficial use for them in phero blends.

I no longer believe that there is something like a ever-working, infallible "consistent" phero-mix when we talk about self-effects.

what are some of the mixes that have "neno"... PM me if you like.
this sounds like the stuff my daughter takes for asthma and it makes her a basket case.
and it sounds like the same stuff my co-worker says amps like an amphetamine and makes him sexy to the ladies.
I've wondered how the same chemical can produce such radically different effects and therefore want to stay the hell away with it. There are 3 phero products that have seemed to induce profound depression and some anger on me but I am not disclosing them because I haven't repeated the conditions enough to be sure.

I'll pm you on it. And yes, I'm not speculating either on which products contain those molecules or evoke negative selfies ... as I wrote, it is highly individual and speculation only damages vendors and the phero world in general. I know for a fact though that Apex stays away from that stuff entirely in it's regular products because Thundr experienced with many of the molecules and also concluded on their unpredictable nature.

The paradoxical effect described in the refered study is not fully eludicated apparently, just observed.