(03-21-2016 3:35 PM)Blade Wrote:  So does anybody believe the old " it must not work for you because of your body chemistry"

I've never really understood this, does anyone have any theories on how that can be the case?

I've been wrestling with this for years and still I'm unclear where it truly differs. I do think some of the variation has to do with natural pheromone output. I say this because wearing mones while you are sick just doesnt work right no matter how tried and true the mix has worked in the past. How much of it is mindset and how much is actual body chemistry can vary I'm sure. A solid answer to this would involve some combination of heavy duty bloodwork and mone testing in tandem.
I have also noticed that consuming meat or following a vegetarian diet changes how certain mixes perform as well. Increased/decreased gym time also seems to affect mone performances too. Still a mystery if this is mindset or body chemistry dictated.

Individual metabolism and diet aside, alot appears to vary concerning individuality of the 5 senses, olfactory being what we usually focus on here. Maybe it's not our own chemistry but rather the differences and variation of those who come in contact with us.

Like hearing, not all of us like the same music. Sight, some think things are more visually stimulating than others. Touch, some enjoy the feel of silk and some enjoy cotton. Taste, foods are more palatable to some than others.

Smell would certainly have the same variables attached to it whether it be us or those who get affected by the mones. This could stem from genetics and/or expression of early childhood behavior mechanisms. The girl that responds to e.none may not be as affected by high a.Androsterone. Her friend may be a heavy a.Androsterone responder and flee from high e.none sigs. This can make for a confusing experience.

This difference may ultimately have nothing to do with "us" but rather "them." However, we enthusiasts tend to take it upon ourselves to naturally introspect what "we" did wrong or right concerning mix A or B. Over time this can lead to confusion on an already unclear subject.

Just some thoughts.

I was on the "products that never worked for me" plain before.

I've come to realize that I can make the best of any product I have on. Sure some products are better at generating effects on targets better than others.

Because I've learned to capitalize on the strengths of certain products, I've realize I can do so much more and get very far.

Take Taboo for instance. NOT a heavy hitter. But a very precise hitter. It's strength? The best in my opinion at enticing women to flirt! I use that to my advantage.

My feel is that all these products ARE in fact working. We just have to learn what they are good at, and do our part.

Gone are the days of the "lazy man's" MAG, that did a tremendous amount of work for you...for now at least.

We indeed are the drivers, of that new Ferrari!

(03-22-2016 5:13 AM)V-nice Wrote:  We indeed are the drivers, of that new Ferrari!

This is a Ferrari:



This is not a Ferrari:



The Ferrari will get me to the office, it will provide lots of attention, and there will be giggling women twirling their hair and giving me plenty of IOIs.

The "car" in the second picture will also get me to the office. It just requires me to run there while I hold up the cardboard frame and shout "vroom vroom!". It too will provide me with lots of attention, and there will be women twirling their hair and giving me plenty of IOIs.

Now, in the decade plus that I've used mones, I have seen people on these forums who try to claim that the ferrari and the cardboard box car are equivalent because they both get you to the office and plenty of female attention.

Usually this logic is used by vendors selling you a cardboard car for the price of a ferrari. Sometimes its by newbies who have never driven a ferrari, and other times its by people who are basically humblebragging about how good their game is.

But there are those who have actually driven a Ferrari and know the difference between 600 horsepower and walking.

A.

I enjoy Alphonse' posts tremendously I have to admit

(03-21-2016 11:35 PM)thundr Wrote:  This is not new knowledge my friend. I would bet that 100% of vendors who are serious about their product are fully aware of GABA interactions. There is nothing mindless about making mones and it is a bit more involved than playing 52 card pickup.

example: DHEAS is a negative GABA modulator while many of the commonly used mones are positive. By your reasoning above, DHEAS should cancel out the majority of molecules yet it is in many blends that contain positive modulators. How is this possible?
Without getting too sciency I will try to explain.

It goes quite a bit deeper than just GABA and diffusion. These play a part but if it was merely that simple my life would be a lot easier. Lol
You forgot to include NMDA, AMPA, glycine, and kainate receptors and to a lesser value the sigma and nACH receptors.
While we are at it let's not forget the minor ligand-gated, sodium, and ~70 known potassium channels. I could toot this trumpet all day but I think you get the idea that there are much deeper interactions involved than just GABA.
There is often a huge iceberg underneath the small snowpeak that is only seen above water.

Molecule X could be a negative GABA modulator yet at the same time possess positive modulation of the NMDA receptor. Does this mean molecule X will cancel out molecule Y which happens to be a positive GABA modulator and ruin a mix? Maybe, maybe not. Depends on what you are trying to do within the mix.
What if molecule Y is a positive modulator of NMDA? Are you willing to sacrifice portions of the GABA interaction in favor of increased NMDA response? This infinite complexity is all part of the fun.

Think of making mixes like picking a cylinder lock. You can lift the first driver pin but you still have 4 or 5 more to lift. Obviously the trick is to get all 5 pins successfully lifted so the plug will rotate and you can open the door to what you seek.

It definitely is quite a bit more intricate than just mindlessly adding things in and taking things out. This forum is an invaluable resource for knowledge and all opinions are welcome. Every one of us are still learning, regardless if we are vendors or not.

Sometimes one must be willing to sacrifice consistency in early test mixes to increase the lockpick skills that eventually open more complicated locks.

You understand a lot more than me as far as the interactions go, lol.

Now, as far as GABA goes, I'm only speaking of antagonists. I've only ever noticed consistency problems with mixes containing pregnenolone, pregnanolone (and analogues of each), and Alpha-THDOC. If consistency can be improved through their removal, it's something to look into.

There's nothing more frustrating than having a mix hit hard one day only to do nothing the next day. I'm trying to find out why this happpens - this is the only thing that sticks with me.

Believe me, you don't need to sacrifice consistency to improve those lockpicking skills. On the contrary, it's possible to have the best of both worlds. In the end, I think most of us here value consistency over a slightly increased effect. Even a sledgehammer is of less value if you can't rely on it to work every time you need it to.

I've only had minor consistency issues with a few of your test mixes (the only exception being CV4), but there's always room to improve. Unique effects are one thing, but it's important to remember what some of the best mixes on the market have in common - they work, every time. Imprint, and to a lesser extent CORE, are about what I look for in terms of consistency in a product.

(03-22-2016 6:21 AM)Alphonse Wrote:  This is a Ferrari:



This is not a Ferrari:



The Ferrari will get me to the office, it will provide lots of attention, and there will be giggling women twirling their hair and giving me plenty of IOIs.

The "car" in the second picture will also get me to the office. It just requires me to run there while I hold up the cardboard frame and shout "vroom vroom!". It too will provide me with lots of attention, and there will be women twirling their hair and giving me plenty of IOIs.

Now, in the decade plus that I've used mones, I have seen people on these forums who try to claim that the ferrari and the cardboard box car are equivalent because they both get you to the office and plenty of female attention.

Usually this logic is used by vendors selling you a cardboard car for the price of a ferrari. Sometimes its by newbies who have never driven a ferrari, and other times its by people who are basically humblebragging about how good their game is.

But there are those who have actually driven a Ferrari and know the difference between 600 horsepower and walking.

A.

My point made. Thanks.

Some mones are clearly better in certain areas than others, and the difference is evident.

Learn your mones strength (which is why solo testing is of the importance) and drive your Ferrari (or beach buggy) to your advantage!

(03-20-2016 1:29 PM)Blade Wrote:  Nude

NA

In fact I've been a bit underwhelmed with most of the Lal products I've tried.

Yeah I agree. But I like Nude.

Surprised to see AV on people' list. For me, it worked a little too well but I barely use it anymore since it's too serious. It always surprised me of its IOI signals though.

Products with a decent reputation but has not done anything for me after thorough testings are:

- API
- Nude

Here's my list of flops:

Corpo
Api
Bliss
Domination
Cohesion
Kore
Dionysos

M3X (I'm on the fence with this one.. More testing required...)
BW (Almost smashed up my car and after that my SO forbid me from ever wearing it.. I felt the self effects were similar to SPEED)
AV (Hit or Miss... Also gives me headaches even at 2 drops nowadays).