I've never been a PUA.

Just wanted to get that out first.

I became aware of the PUA community right around 2007 or so, roughly the same time I got into pheromones. I read all the material with interest, but had some obstacles in my way at the time that prevented me from ever trying anything. Beyond the cheese that was so prevalent, I always appreciated that there was a deeper look into the psychology of human interaction at play, and I figured I could at least adapt some of the principles into my day to day interactions. In some cases, it worked. Others, not so much.

I understand the concept of "game", and while I have work to do, I can see that I lean toward the cocky funny variety. It's just part of my personality. I had to develop my wit as a defense mechanism, and have spent a lifetime honing it into something razor sharp when the circumstances are right. What I could never do, for a number of reasons, is get into these more complicated "systems". The Mystery Method read like some kind of dungeon master guide to D&D with all the A-1, A-2, S-1, etc. stuff. Neil Strauss' take on it just came across as hokey to me, i.e. "Some women have a C smile, while others have a U smile..." and so on.

The obvious one was David D'angelo, since he pushed the whole cocky-funny thing, but I quickly lost interest when it became clear that he was first and foremost a marketer. For that matter, so were all the other big names. I started seeing how they seemed to all use the same sort of NLP-based marketing speak on their websites (NLP being another interest of mine that goes back before even Pheromones), and it was so clear and blatant to me that it worked counter to their intent. I had zero interest in actually paying these guys for their products.

So here we are in 2017. Mystery's VH-1 show basically laid the PUA community bare to the masses at the time, and I imagine all these "systems" of old have become obsolete. What I'm wondering is how has pick-up in general evolved over the years since then? The few online PUA community forums I've scrolled through seem to follow the same old same old. I've also seen some cross pollination with the men's rights movement in the form of The Red Pill and Chateau Heartiste. I do agree in principle with the things they talk about, but I'm not quite as hardcore. What I'm more interested in is what does a successfull PUA in 2017 look like? What are his tools? Have they changed so much from the golden era of the online seduction community? Has someone come up with some breakthrough in human interaction that was unknown to the world in 2007-2010ish when I was still paying attention?

Quote:but I quickly lost interest when it became clear that he was first and foremost a marketer.

This is true for everyone.......Everyone.....selling PUA material.

What does a "modern" PUA look like?







Compare with the old guard:







***Literally couldn't find any recent photos of these guys with women who aren't their wives***

"Game" is checkers.........resources are Chess.

The PUA scene is pretty much dead (imho). Every once in a while someone new will come out with pretty much the same material with a new shiny label. I remember one famous PUA admitted his success rate was about 1 for 30.

(03-19-2017 6:01 PM)Blacky Chan Wrote:  The PUA scene is pretty much dead (imho). Every once in a while someone new will come out with pretty much the same material with a new shiny label. I remember one famous PUA admitted his success rate was about 1 for 30.

Lol...1 for 30 sounds worse then not using anything and just having fun.

I've never considered myself a PUA, but I've realized, I'm not all that bad. Considering my luck with women seem to increase every year, and using pheromones has actually helped me. And I'm not talking about the mones itself actually working, but just wearing them for years and wanting to see results, has made me much more proactive, and in return, enhancing my own game.

From what I've learned, I realize we've all gotten better with our own game since using mones. Because wanting to see results, made you push a little more.

With all the craziness I've been through these past couple of years, I started to realize that "women are easy".

That's how I know everyone is getting better and I don't even have to walk in your shoes. Playing with pheromones will actually make you more aware and effective with women. Look around... We are the next generation.

(03-19-2017 6:01 PM)Blacky Chan Wrote:  The PUA scene is pretty much dead (imho).

So true.

When the "secrets" were laid bare to the public eye women became privy to things that father and sons and brothers discussed about women. Techniques that were quietly passed on at pool halls and bars were sold in DVD's, ebooks, videos and email subscriptions.

It's so funny because when someone would mention that they told their friend about some of the techniques that they had learned I used to post "The first rule of Fight Club is don't talk about Fight Club."

Even Mystery's shtick (black nail polish, furry top hat) was laid bare and made ineffective.

(03-19-2017 8:31 PM)V-nice Wrote:  We are the next generation.

I can't disagree with this statement more. Giving pheromones to a guy who is inexperienced with women is akin to taking a boy hunting without telling him how to hunt. Sure he has the gun (pheromones) but he doesn't know how to aim or fire. In fact he doesn't even know he has to disengage the safety before firing.

Even with pheromones most guys here don't know what to do. The next generation?

You know what you are doing V-nice but the majority of guys here just buy the gun (pheromones) and run out to the hunt with no training whatsoever.

Nothing personal meant to anyone. It's just an observation. Not putting myself above anyone. I have my faults also.

Being here on PT is a great start. The majority actively on here are learning, we read evidence of that daily. I believe most of the guys here are on their way.

Everyone has gone out and made mistakes. It's their time and money. It's also learning opportunities for all.

We can't be going around as if we can judge the majority. Why not try a new approach and use our wisdom to influence and encourage. Even privately if we truly care.

I'm against using "the majority" observation. I place more respect for the majority here.

(03-20-2017 7:58 AM)Androcles Wrote:  I'm against using "the majority" observation. I place more respect for the majority here.

The majority of guys here couldn't pick up a girl if she jumped in their arms. Not meant for anyone in particular.

The majority of guys are here because they need help with picking up women. Yes or no?

Look at the truth in the face. Never be afraid of the truth. Don't lie to yourself or others. It's a poor habit. Hard to get rid of.

Of course everyone here does not fit into the box. Everyone is different. However many people share common behaviors. Being shy around women is not unusual. Many men here experience it.

You are married so none of this applies to you. Not really. This is about the single man's journey in 2017.

Of course everyone's opinion is welcome. No offense meant to anyone.

This is a pheromone forum. You can't speak for the majority. You spend too much time writing offensive stances because you think you know best.

Lie to myself and others? You going there?

Every conversation applies to me. It is a public forum. I can chime in when you get on your high horse from time to time.

For all this talk about working with women, I observe key areas of improvement in basic communication.

My intent was to help prevent your negative notions in your writing and your perpetual belief you are superior and attempt to have the answers. Hence the constant engagements from week to week.

You need to stop this married guy versus single guy crusade.

Here's how I look at it. The underlying mindset that PUA's teach (Inner game) is valuable but a lot of the "if she does this then do x" games are a waste of your thoughts. Why would you waste time on trying to figure out a woman... because if you were confident enough and had solid inner game then you wouldnt need to worry about it. And in fact, if you try half the stuff these guys say without first having solid confidence in the first place then you'll fail miserably. In other words, there is no value in figuring out game, in my opinion, and instead you should work on figuring yourself out ands becoming who you want to be.

PUA's online are all trying to sell something. When you buy into what they sell, you surrender your ability to think for yourself and that is a dangerous thing. Even Arash Dibazar has gone soft recently, although some of his videos on confidence and figuring out your own self worth are valuable. The other thing that annoys me about online PUA's in general is that they are teaching about being an alpha male, when in reality they themselves are trying much too hard to become an alpha male, which is a very beta trait... which leads me to alpha status in general. Its one thing to be alpha, be in control of yourself and your environment, and be confident enough to do ones own thing and consequently have a following of woman, and its another thing entirely to try to be the rough and rough guy who is THE alpha male. THAT guy.... nobody likes that guy.

Morning thoughts. PUA is largely dead imo.



@ Androcles, I don't believe Paradox is attacking you. His post reads like food for thought.