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+--- Thread: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited (/Thread-Dhea-Dheas-7-Keto-Dheas-revisited)
Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 11-08-2015 9:51 AM
I would like to start a(nother) thread on this 3 molecules to discuss their effects based on users experiences and on what two prominent community-members recently posted about them.
Pherstest's single-molecule descriptions on his website and Ekscentras statements about beautyfier and fallout prevention- or "shallow" mones.
Will post the respective links later.
These three are relatively easy to obtain/buy, have very distinct effects and uses and still many users are not as familiar with them as with the "main" Pheromones (none, Androsterone, Androstadienone , the nols). Let's change that.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Ekscentra - 11-08-2015 10:00 AM
Considering two of these three are widely available in supplemental form (DHEA and 7-Keto) and two are available in pre-mixed single-molecule form (DHEA and DHEAS), I'm surprised we're not seeing any more reports come in.
dbot's descriptions on http://www.Pheromones.net/ still contain the best resources I've found on these three.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Alphonse - 11-08-2015 10:06 AM
Ekscentra,
Dbot's descriptions are on p h e r o s . net. Forum autocorrects p-h-e-r-o-s to pheromones.
A
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Ekscentra - 11-08-2015 10:10 AM
(11-08-2015 10:06 AM)Alphonse Wrote: Ekscentra,
Dbot's descriptions are on p h e r o s . net. Forum autocorrects p-h-e-r-o-s to pheromones.
A
Yes, unfortunately. p h e r o s .net (no spaces) is the correct address.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 11-08-2015 11:21 AM
link to phertest's descriptions:
http://houseofpheromones.com/human-pheromone-effects-molecules/#DHEA
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 11-09-2015 7:50 AM
Allright, I start with DHEA.
Phertest's description points out the various potential benefits of this molecule when worn as an aerosol/pheromone.
Those sound very good and make it plausible to include it as a "round-out" ingredient into heavier male-status mixes. Also, it sounds as if it would be very viable even as a standalone - mood and performance enhancer.
Additionally, we have read about DHEA as a beautyfying molecule, mainly in Wolf, where Ekscentra described it as giving off nearly an "narcistic quality".
On the negative side, it is described as status-reducing, shallow and giving off an immature vibe. This, as well as the positive effects, is of course dosage-dependent and affected by other mones used in conjunction.
My experience is limited to some homebrew application where I eventually messed up the dilution and coul not be bothered to try again.
I guess I wore somewhere between 25 and 60 mcg most of the times.
Distinct effects were mood enhancement and visual brightening when applied as a standalone.
I've also worn it alongside A314 rev. 29 spray and oil.
My impression was that it somewhat buffered the effects I was them used to get from A314 but also change it into another, yet also interesting and useful direction. Less silverback maturity but still some sort of superior alphaness, freshness, virility - of course that impression could have mingled with a preconception I then had with what I thought of this substance.
Still, it might be a Fallout hindering molecule, but status reduction not so much. I felt it still carried lots of it.
Even though, Ekscentra and others therorized that 7-Keto Dhea displays nearly all benefits of DHEA while not interfering with fallout and even stronger beautyfier-properties.
The only readymade product where it is openly stated as an ingredient is Ladykiller by HAX.
It's available in capsules and is fairly soluble in ethanol or perfumers alc. Maybe some of you are inclined to give it another shot ... some members have been there some years ago but participation was not that great. If it's benefits are approaching that what is described here, it should be well worth the bother.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 11-14-2015 7:01 AM
Premixes available:
7-Keto and Dhea at LAL
Dhea, Dheas at PXS
Dhea at Treasures
Also, as stated above, if you mix them yourself, a lifetme supply of Keto or Dhea available at a fraction of the cost.
Nice opportunity to test mones a vastly different ratios. 7-Keto at 5,10, 20, 25, 50, 100, 200, 500 and 1000mcg are ready for filtration right now at my lab.
I used the NOW foods prodcut at 25mg per capsule
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Phyros - 11-15-2015 12:03 AM
Sooo do we expect 7-keto to be a fallout killer or? Hell right now I might need one after wearing GoA and Ascend around a coworker...
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - BeautifulEnigma - 11-15-2015 1:00 AM
From what I'm seeing so far with ladykiller, it doesn't seem to have the same fallout killing effects that DHEA and DHEAS purportedly have.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Ekscentra - 11-15-2015 1:10 AM
(11-15-2015 12:03 AM)Phyros Wrote: Sooo do we expect 7-keto to be a fallout killer or? Hell right now I might need one after wearing GoA and Ascend around a coworker...
Quite the contrary, I think it could be a great way to compound fallout. That naturalization effect is especially useful for making a mix more believable. You can imagine how this might be useful for fallout among other things.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Ace - 11-21-2015 1:21 PM
I'm very interested in working with these molecules in my homebrew mixes. A lot of research suggests they're worth more exploration. I've noticed on here that most folks refer to extraction of supplements that have fillers and other additives. However, in looking for purer forms, I've located other sources that are purer and without additives. However, I would like some input on what folks on here with more experience think of the possibilities of these.
This liquid form states pure pharmaceutical at 1.2mg a drop and 1000 drops per bottle. That's pretty high concentrate and appears to be ready for just adding to mixes.
http://www.completenutritionandwellness.com/store/dhea-drops.html
This is pure powder form sold by the gram.
http://www.powdercity.com/products/dhea
As well, there is this DHEA-S cream that has 10mg of molecule. Does it have possibilities of a stand alone?
https://www.drvitaminsolutions.com/products/Zetpil-Neutraceuticals-Prasterone-DHEA-Anti-Aging-TheraCream-1-oz
As well, and off topic but still in the interest of home brewing single molecules, here's liquid pregnenolone at 1.2mg per drop
http://www.naturalhealthyconcepts.com/pregnenolone-drops-biomatrix.html
What do you think?
Thanks.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Ace - 11-21-2015 5:50 PM
Thanks for contacting me through PM George. Unfortunately, I'm unable to PM back as I don't have 5 posts yet.
I'm looking forward to hearing your input and comments on this.
As for the liquid - While 1.2mg a drop is definitely way too much to consider as a direct application, adding 1 drop per ml (assuming that there are 30 drops in a ml) to a carrier would be 40 mcg a drop. I figure it could be adjusted to any liking for use and test purposes.
The powder - If it is pure, it may just dissolve completely and be quite clear as any commercial product. A person could make any concentration they like. And at less than 6 bucks a gram shipped, one could do a lot of testing and using for pennies. That's true with either the liquid or powder.
One thing you or anyone else may think about answering for me is a question of source. I'll post a few more links to explain what I mean. As far as I can tell, most of these supplements are synthesized from diosgenin which is found in wild yam or soy. It is the product they make in the lab from diosgenin that they call pure pharmaceutical DHEA.
My question is does it matter if the diosgenin is from wild yams? Is it still pharmaceutical grade real stuff?
There are several suppliers of the same liquid DHEA that I pointed to in the original link. However, they say different things about it. One says "It is formulated from wild yam (Dioscorea villosa) extraction. Its molecular structure is identical to that which the body naturally produces". Another says "DHEA (dehydroepiandrosterone) drops are the highest pharmaceutical grade DHEA". And another says it's "Bioidentical dehydroepiandrosterone".
Does it matter? Is it still the same molecule that will diffuse and work?
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - NP17 - 11-22-2015 5:37 AM
What do you want? Human DHEA? All DHEA is plant-sourced. In fact, all the molecules we use are synthesized from abundant natural sources.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Ace - 11-22-2015 8:39 AM
That's what I found out. Did a lot of research last night. As far as I can tell, the molecular structure and weight of these is the same as those sold specifically as pheromone additives through pheromone merchants. Bioidentical, as far as I can tell, is no different than what the human body makes. I'll do my work with these.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 11-22-2015 12:18 PM
Yes, most medical grade hormones are manufactured from exogenous sources - bioidentical does mean what you already thought - the same molecule as occurs in the body in this case.
I'd think the best option is to use bulkpowder and dilute it down to your needs, you can skip filtering fillers and additives that way. - the dheas-s cream is a bit impractical to transform into a phero-liquid.
If you're located in the US and shipping fees are neglectable, I recommend buying Dhea-s pre-diluted from PheromoneXS and 7-Keto from LAL.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - NP17 - 11-22-2015 2:28 PM
Well I'm pretty disappointed with LAL's price for the 7-keto. $50 for 10 mg is outrageous. I can get a lifetime supply for half that, all things considered.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Ace - 11-22-2015 5:26 PM
Thanks for the replies. I believe I'm going to get both the liquids and the powder to work with. I haven't found the pregnenolone in powder form yet so the liquid form seems to be the best option I've found of that so far.
As far as the liquid DHEA, it does say that it's pharmaceutical grade and the only additives are alcohol, glycerine, and vanilla flavor. No other fillers or additives. The vanilla flavor seems a small detail considering that only one drop in 2ml will produce a 20mcg a drop solution. It probably won't be noticeable at most usable dilution rates.
I'll surely let everyone know how this all works out as these seem to possibly be quite promising, clean, and money saving alternatives to these molecules as compared to what the vendors are asking. As NP17 said, it's outrageous. And, as we may find out, unnecessary.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Ekscentra - 11-22-2015 6:01 PM
http://www.healthnatura.com/pregnenolone20grams-p/pregnenolone20gr.htm
You can find pure Pregnenolone powder in bulk there.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Ace - 11-22-2015 6:44 PM
Cool. Thanks. 99.9% pure bioidentical for use in neutraceutial product research and development. That's the stuff.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 11-23-2015 3:02 AM
(11-22-2015 5:26 PM)Ace Wrote: Thanks for the replies. I believe I'm going to get both the liquids and the powder to work with. I haven't found the pregnenolone in powder form yet so the liquid form seems to be the best option I've found of that so far.
As far as the liquid DHEA, it does say that it's pharmaceutical grade and the only additives are alcohol, glycerine, and vanilla flavor. No other fillers or additives. The vanilla flavor seems a small detail considering that only one drop in 2ml will produce a 20mcg a drop solution. It probably won't be noticeable at most usable dilution rates.
I'll surely let everyone know how this all works out as these seem to possibly be quite promising, clean, and money saving alternatives to these molecules as compared to what the vendors are asking. As NP17 said, it's outrageous. And, as we may find out, unnecessary.
Cool, reps for your initiative!
The flavour-residue will not be a problem. Might even enhance the pheromonical signature.
I'm sporting about 20mcg homebrew and filtered 7-Keto this week in an alc/dpg base with roughly 3% mojito perfume oil for coverage/diffusion.
Will let you know what I observe.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Ace - 11-23-2015 7:20 AM
I look forward to hearing about your results. I ordered the liquid and powder last night as well as the liquid pregnenolone. I probably won't get them till after the holiday. I'll post my results here as well.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Ace - 11-24-2015 11:48 PM
I have a question regarding DHEAS.
From what I understand and have found in researching, it's pure form is only good at room temperature for a few weeks and for long term has to be stored at -20c or else it will degrade into DHEA.
What about once it's mixed with a carrier? How long is it good for? Would it last longer in a carrier in just a cool dark area?
In the case of buying as single molecule mixed in carrier from a pheromone company to use in your own mixes, suppose you don't use it very fast. It would seem that if they were to sell you a mix of several mg it must be stable or they would make mention of its instability. As well, buying it as part of a formula, it would seem that it would be mentioned as well unless it is indeed stable and not likely to degrade once it's mixed with a carrier.
Anybody have any knowledge of this?
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 11-25-2015 5:13 AM
I'm also aware of that problem and it has been discussed by e.g. wiserd and dexter years before. Maybe they can chime in here?
I might shoot Chris at Alpha Dream a mail concerning how he keeps his Dhea-S stable in his mixes.
I'm also about to figure out which Essential oils can be safely mixed or layered with mones without degrading them. Some have very useful properties and synergy with mones when applied simultaneously but apart from each other. It would be very convenient to know which are suitable for mixing into an alcohol or Dpg / Phero solution. You'd have the benefit of anti-oxidant and aseptic effects and a pleasant albeit light scent to the mones
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 12-04-2015 3:41 AM
A patent for aerosol Dhea-S (and Dhea) apllied via Nebuliser or Nose-Spray to treat respiratory diseases:
http://www.google.com/patents/EP2197452A1?cl=en
Have not looked into it in detail, but this should braodly indicate an anti-inflammatory action
of aerosol dheas.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 01-02-2016 2:21 PM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26105109
Highly phero-relevant study, from a very relevant journal. To understand the underlying mechanism of sucessful treatment of Depression and low libido by DHEA, additional neurosteroid levels were measured. Turned out, only Androsterone were significantly higher.
It does not mean that higher Androsterone has antidepressive action but it is a strong hint in the direction.
Androsterone lifts female mood as far as we phero users can tell, and Androsterone steadies the male psyche.
Also, good to know that Dhea suplementation inreases -Androsterone in men and women. Sadly, no dosage reported and no monitoring of Testosterone and Estrogens
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Alphonse - 01-02-2016 4:34 PM
(01-02-2016 2:21 PM)GoergeFocky Wrote: Also, good to know that Dhea suplementation inreases -Androsterone in men and women. Sadly, no dosage reported and no monitoring of Testosterone and Estrogens
See the study below which measured the pheromones released on the skin when subjects were injected with DHEA (it measured est and test also):
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1432-1033.1969.tb19597.x/pdf
A.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 01-16-2016 10:37 AM
To my considerable regret and frustration I hardly get any effects/results from my homebre 7-Keto mentionend in earlier posts in this thread.
I had it reasonably professionally filtered, mixed and matured with devices in my practice -
I have to assume that the used NOW-Foods stuff is not legit ....
Gonna identify and order pharmaceutical-grade 7-Keto if available for veterinary use and repeat the procedure
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Ekscentra - 01-16-2016 2:52 PM
(01-16-2016 10:37 AM)GoergeFocky Wrote: To my considerable regret and frustration I hardly get any effects/results from my homebre 7-Keto mentionend in earlier posts in this thread.
I had it reasonably professionally filtered, mixed and matured with devices in my practice -
I have to assume that the used NOW-Foods stuff is not legit ....
Gonna identify and order pharmaceutical-grade 7-Keto if available for veterinary use and repeat the procedure
NOW Foods is one of the worst supplement companies I can think of. I'd be surprised if there were any 7-Keto in there.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Vincent_Vega - 05-21-2016 6:20 PM
Does DHEAS have a smell?
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Jimmycrack - 05-22-2016 8:36 AM
Anyone have suggestions for a 50 yo male taking 7-keto? Amounts, time of day?
Took east 25mg Dhea (not 7-keto) daily around 40yo a decade ago. I also gave it to my girlfriend. We were on a beach vacation with nearly all women including a couple lesbian couples, a couple bi-gals. Took it at the time to boost T (which I think I read it might do). I was feeling low T. No proof I was.
So it wound my girlfriend up. Made her pretty angry and want to drink alot. First day or two was great. She demanded sex. In retrospect she probably got a test rush which then rolled over to estrogen. The later days were lame.
As for myself, I was stoked, a bit wired and I think it did give me a test boost. The weirdest thing was the two submissive lesbians were into me. I say submissive because they both liked highly butch boi types. This was great except that I was upsetting the lesbian dynamic. too long to go into.
I've dated several bi-gals and they never want to have threesome when I date them, it is all comfort and love. So I have a theory that I must have some weird natural signature that attracts submissive/bi girls and the DHEA boosted the signature on that vacation.
Anyhow a few years later I tried the dhea cream and tried it with my girlfriend, and that is when I got weirded out. It totally altered her cycle. So that stuff can be powerful and I would not mess with it above 10-25mg (pill) and then only for short cycles. Or better yet put it in the doctor category.
As for the aerosol, pheromonal application... I haven't done much experimentation there.
I have a funny anecdote about hormones in general. A buddy of mine had a dad who was a chemist. He was studying hormones in the 60s and 70s for what i believe was animal research. A couple younger guys were not following lab protocols.
Apparently they were getting jacked up by some synthetic hormone just by the scent. This was making them even more careless working around them. He claimed that thru their fingertips alone (not gloves), they absorbed them. A short while thereafter they developed gyno. It sounded like this was not very curable at the time and it resulted in some pretty serious reprimands. He told the story when when my buddy was in chemistry class to underscore how serious small exposures can be and because it was funny. "don't listen, develop breasts"
When you look up things on hormones like DES (which I believe has a structure close to Methoxyestratetraenone ), it does make you appreciate their power.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Ekscentra - 05-22-2016 9:21 AM
I don't see any reason why someone who saw success with DHEA wouldn't also fibd 7-Keto to work for them. LEF is a reliable manufacturer, and I'm sure their 7-Keto is up to par.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 07-28-2016 2:47 AM
Obtained viable, lab-grade 7-Keto and Dhea-S and tried out both for approx. 3 weeks. in doses ranging from 5-50mcg.
I'm reluctant to share details here because results were highly interesting and both are definitely very useful, effective phero-molecules on their own and in Androsterone based male mixes - and thus I would love to see some blind tests on both molecules to confirm their value.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - thundr - 07-28-2016 8:53 AM
Did high DHEAS test runs break your skin out?
I noticed this effect awhile back during high end testing (50+ mcg) of the molecule but I never had the opportunity to ask.
EDIT: The skin breakouts were not localized to the app point. It seemed to be a more systemic effect
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Spider-mone - 07-28-2016 9:41 AM
(07-28-2016 8:53 AM)thundr Wrote: Did high DHEAS test runs break your skin out?
I noticed this effect awhile back during high end testing (50+ mcg) of the molecule but I never had the opportunity to ask.
EDIT: The skin breakouts were not localized to the app point. It seemed to be a more systemic effect
I sprayed my neck once, 10mcg per spray. did one spray each side of neck and my neck went red and felt like a sunburn all day. only happened once though so not sure what to make of it.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - BarefootOxford - 07-28-2016 6:07 PM
(07-28-2016 9:41 AM)Spider-mone Wrote: I sprayed my neck once, 10mcg per spray. did one spray each side of neck and my neck went red and felt like a sunburn all day. only happened once though so not sure what to make of it.
Sounds like your skin WTF'd and then was OK later with the now-familiar compounds.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 07-29-2016 1:04 AM
Had no breakouts, even at 50mcg.
I was aware though of the possibility of breakouts and inflamatory responses with Dhea-S when used as aphero. Read some older reports about that at lovepotions forum and dexter wrote about issues as well.
I agree that it is a systemic reaction - I've studied some medical literature about DHEA-S and it's most certainly an immunomodulator.
Without going into details (yet), DHEA-S is a phero on the male side. A say this becuase love-potion for example portrays it as more useful to women - though since both genders excrete i naturally, it' suitbale for unisex use. Dose and mones combined will change the effect and "message" it conveys drastically.
I find DHEA-S rather nootropic in effects, and I'm certain it readily crosses the BBB. I'm also certain that it is an important component in AD's Instant Shine, some selfies and reactions are extremely similar to what I get when I use IS - more so than Androsterone-S even, with which DHEA-S pairs nicely.
Will write up some real expereinces and reactions with DHEA-S in detail here soon. Maybe it is not the best one for blind-testing anyway when it's already used in many phero-blends. But 7-Keto would be great to get a blind-test spin if some vendor would churn out 2 or 3 molecules to get more data on it.
Even known and widely used molecules should profit from a repeated round of blind-tests just to confirm their assumed effects.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 09-15-2016 12:14 PM
The key to understand DHEA and many other neurosteroids that are useful in our aerosl/phero use lies in understanding the differences between activity on estrogen receptor alpha and beta respectively.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3%CE%B1-Androstanediol
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5%CE%B1-Androstane-3%CE%B2,17%CE%B2-diol#cite_note-pmid20814732-16
Those Wiki tractates about 3β and 3alpah-androstanediol are essential reading for any serious enthusiast that want to go beyond the simplistic, false Androgen/Estrogen - Male/Female - Alpha/Beta duality that underlies many a post about substances discussed on this forum. It also sheds some light on beneficial actions of some androgenic molecules does not (or not only) stem from ther actions on androgen receptors, but from conversion into estrogen-receptor agonists.
DHEA functions in a similar way, in that it binds in manifold higher quantity to ERbeta than to ERalpah when used at physiological levels.
Some vendor ought to obtain and blind test 3β-androstanediol, I suspct it will be a very powerful mone, and is likely already an AD putative
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 09-16-2016 2:18 AM
ERbeta-activity of DHEA might also deliever a hint on why DHEA is known to act synergistic and supporting to molecules like -Etrione, a strong aromatase-inhibitor.
A phero-mix that includes both DHEA and -Etrione might convey the message of strong immnohealth (ERbeta mediated protective effects of DHEA) while retaining a disstictly maleish aura -the presence of strong aromatase inhibition might indicate a man's body's ability to "handle" high DHEA levels in the healthiest way possible - profiting from it's ERbeta mediated health benefits, it's property as a steroid precursor to male steroids (with further health, status and sexul benefits), it's antagonism to high cortisol (associated with lower social status) while DHEA not paired with -Etrione might convey too much of it's potential estrogenic potential. Dosage will also play a huge part. There are many studies indictaing high serum DHEA is associated with high serum cortisol (as a bodily attempt to lower the latter - alas, it still indicates high stress in the first place, which is never agreeable)
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 09-19-2016 4:04 AM
(09-16-2016 2:18 AM)GoergeFocky Wrote: ERbeta-activity of DHEA might also deliever a hint on why DHEA is known to act synergistic and supporting to molecules like -Etrione, a strong aromatase-inhibitor.
A phero-mix that includes both DHEA and -Etrione might convey the message of strong immnohealth (ERbeta mediated protective effects of DHEA) while retaining a disstictly maleish aura -the presence of strong aromatase inhibition might indicate a man's body's ability to "handle" high DHEA levels in the healthiest way possible - profiting from it's ERbeta mediated health benefits, it's property as a steroid precursor to male steroids (with further health, status and sexul benefits), it's antagonism to high cortisol (associated with lower social status) while DHEA not paired with -Etrione might convey too much of it's potential estrogenic potential. Dosage will also play a huge part. There are many studies indictaing high serum DHEA is associated with high serum cortisol (as a bodily attempt to lower the latter - alas, it still indicates high stress in the first place, which is never agreeable)
strong hints for afrementionend theory, alas with Androsterone instead of Etrione:
https://raypeatforum.com/community/threads/remarkable-synergistic-anabolic-androgenic-effect-of-androsterone-and-dhea-combination.12613/
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 10-07-2016 12:54 AM
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2725024/
Another very concise meta-study about DHEA and DHEA-S, with many phero-relevant topics
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 10-07-2016 3:32 AM
(07-28-2016 8:53 AM)thundr Wrote: Did high DHEAS test runs break your skin out?
I noticed this effect awhile back during high end testing (50+ mcg) of the molecule but I never had the opportunity to ask.
EDIT: The skin breakouts were not localized to the app point. It seemed to be a more systemic effect
Stumbled over a study indicating that DHEA-S is significantly higher in male acne patients ... will link it up when I find it again
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Kohloe - 10-13-2016 6:17 PM
(07-28-2016 8:53 AM)thundr Wrote: Did high DHEAS test runs break your skin out?
I noticed this effect awhile back during high end testing (50+ mcg) of the molecule but I never had the opportunity to ask.
EDIT: The skin breakouts were not localized to the app point. It seemed to be a more systemic effect
Might happen. DHEA(S) is converted to Androstenedione which converts to Testosterone which converts to DHT. The last one is the main culprit for oily skin and acne breakouts in men and women. This happens inside the body though, I'm not sure how an applied spray may affect this whole process.
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 10-14-2016 1:32 AM
(10-13-2016 6:17 PM)Kohloe Wrote: Might happen. DHEA(S) is converted to Androstenedione which converts to Testosterone which converts to DHT. The last one is the main culprit for oily skin and acne breakouts in men and women. This happens inside the body though, I'm not sure how an applied spray may affect this whole process.
There is no clear evidence in the literature that DHT is the main culprit for oily skin and acne breakouts, there are some indications that DHT concentration in some skin and follicle cells play a role but it's as always, a much more complicated pathogenesis.
The rational "more DHT = more acne, hairloss etc." is just not proven only theorized
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - Muad'Dib - 11-20-2016 11:25 PM
What kind of alcohol would I use if I wanted to dilute DHEA into it? I've got 50 mcg tablets to try out with this. And what type of reactions could I expect from this mixture?
RE: Dhea, Dheas, 7-Keto Dheas revisited - GoergeFocky - 11-21-2016 3:50 AM
Very high proof alcholo is needed for dilution. 80% vol. and upwards. 50mg is a lot already, 50,000mcg. Try to aim for a dilution to 50 or 100mcg of a dosing unit (1 spray or drop).
DHEA is not th same as DHEAS btw. They can have very different effects, depending on dosage, molecules combined and your individual endocrine situation.
50 -100mcg and above of DHEA dilution may have very agreable, nootropic self effects, or it will make you tired and feel shitty -that's right, it can go both ways. Nevertheless, at such ranges, you should get a good feel fo self-effects and effects on others. Try it out, chances are it's rather positive.