Hi guys, I have two questions please.

If you had a choice for a solvent (from thread title) to use as a diluent for mones, which would you choose and why?

Would any one of these solvents be able to "carry" heavier molecules like oxytocin?


Thanks for reading.

I'd use ethanol.

Isopryl smells bad and methanol is hazardous to breathe.

Nice question, I'm also interested in carriers for heavy weight peptide hormones!

With ethanol it's tested and the opinions if real oxytocin and not shorter oxytocine receptor agonists works go twice! Methanol is a lightweight molecule but I wouldn't use it because it's toxic! Isopropyl is heavier then ethanol so it wouldn't help in this case and it also has a really bad smell!

But may be there some more carriers outside which increase the diffusion instead of lowering it? Does anybody know that?

Thanks for the reply guys. If anyone could shed more light on a possible better diluent which doesn't try to kill you, it'd be great

Ethanol works fine, you just have to use a carrier oil to slow down diffusion of the active ingredients. Otherwise, you could talk to Chris about silicone-based diluents.

Info from Chris at Alpha Dream (thanks a million Chris!) -

Chris said that the silicones like cyclomethicone (cyclotetrasiloxane, cyclopentasiloxane, cyclohexasiloxane) and dimethicone (low cts of <= 1000) only mix with 200 proof (100%) anhydrous (no water at all) ethanol (probably USP grade) - any water present in the ethanol will cause complete separation.

I've experienced this trying to get Everclear 190 proof ethanol to mix with cyclomethicone and dimethicone, and ruined the 500mg trione powder that dbot graciously sent me :dash2:

As far as I can tell I have no way to order anhydrous ethanol that can be used to mix and applied to the skin, seems like it is only sold from lab retailers to businesses.

Unless Chris wants to market his proprietary carrier/diluent/barrier blend (which would be fabulous!), or someone can come up with a way to get the last remaining bit of water out of Everclear, it doesn't seem like there is a clear path to being able to homebrew with a silicone base.

Chris has also indicated that getting some of the mones to dissolve in the silicones is problematic, which is why he dissolves them in the ethanol before blending with the silicones, so making an ethanol-free silicone-only mix and just putting the mones in there may or may not be possible.

Any help on this anyone??

(08-23-2011 11:19 AM)XPX Wrote:  Nice question, I'm also interested in carriers for heavy weight peptide hormones!

With ethanol it's tested

...

Isopropyl is heavier then ethanol so it wouldn't help in this case and it also has a really bad smell!

But may be there some more carriers outside which increase the diffusion instead of lowering it? Does anybody know that?

Thanks, XPX!

You think the grade of purity of EtOH could influence on it's diffusion/carrying properties?

For example, would 97º EtOH diffuse/carry molecules better than 95º EtOH?

Put your everclear in the freezer over night. The water will turn to ice. You may be able to filter the ice out and put the ethanol back in the freezer for another night then mix in your silicone. I wouldn't go through that much trouble though. I'd just put the everclear in the freezer over night then quickly mix in the silicone and see what happens.

(09-03-2011 10:11 AM)2Soon2Care Wrote:  Info from Chris at Alpha Dream (thanks a million Chris!) -

Chris said that the silicones like cyclomethicone (cyclotetrasiloxane, cyclopentasiloxane, cyclohexasiloxane) and dimethicone (low cts of <= 1000) only mix with 200 proof (100%) anhydrous (no water at all) ethanol (probably USP grade) - any water present in the ethanol will cause complete separation.

I've experienced this trying to get Everclear 190 proof ethanol to mix with cyclomethicone and dimethicone, and ruined the 500mg trione powder that dbot graciously sent me :dash2:

As far as I can tell I have no way to order anhydrous ethanol that can be used to mix and applied to the skin, seems like it is only sold from lab retailers to businesses.

Unless Chris wants to market his proprietary carrier/diluent/barrier blend (which would be fabulous!), or someone can come up with a way to get the last remaining bit of water out of Everclear, it doesn't seem like there is a clear path to being able to homebrew with a silicone base.

Chris has also indicated that getting some of the mones to dissolve in the silicones is problematic, which is why he dissolves them in the ethanol before blending with the silicones, so making an ethanol-free silicone-only mix and just putting the mones in there may or may not be possible.

Any help on this anyone??

It's very hard to get the water out of everclear. Freezing it won't work (ever keep a bottle of vodka in the freezer for cocktails?), the alcohol essentially works as antifreeze and the water will not freeze out of solution until about - 50 C.. You would need to boil and distill the spirit and condense the alcohol several times.

Silicone perfume bases are an advanced venture and they are difficult to make. You have to even control the humidity in the air, or the whole silicone blend will turn into a milky concoction. Alcohol pulls the moisture out of the air, and since silicone refuses to mix with ANY water, ....

The purity of EtOH in of itself doesn't matter much as far as the diffusion, but when you start getting over 10% water in alcohol with a PG solution for pheromones, the pheromones will start to precipitate out of solution as the pheromone compounds are hydrophobic (they don't like water)

If you have a premixed alcohol/cyclomethicone/dimethicone solution, the pheromones will gradually dissolve in the mixture at room temperature. I could probably offer premixed silicone / alcohol base to some members.

In my professional opinion you are unlikely to get heavy molecules such as oxytocin to diffuse with any carrier. From our internal tests, I truly believe oxytocin does not have any effect, due largely perhaps to it's inability to diffuse at atmospheric temperature and pressure.

~ Chris

You are the man Chris!

So basically whatever the mix (non-silicone) there should really be less than 10% water by volume to prevent the mones from separating... Good info!

A premixed would be great! I'll still keep striving for my own anhydrous (close to 0% water) ethanol so I can use the silicones I've gotten from lotioncrafter, but I'm really interesting in building a database of the mones and the mixes so I can work out diffusion rates for the various components. I'd love to have a visualization of what the dispersion would look like at a specific body temperature over time!

Now doing some poking around, I've found some 3-Angstrom (3A aka 0.3 nanometer) molecular sieves that may work well to pull the water out of everclear, hopefully without requiring distilling, but they seem to be hard to get hold of for small quantities. They seem to be used in industrial processes combined in distillation and condenser machines. They basically have pores just the right size to trap water and can then be removed and dried for re-use once sealed against moisture.

Below is as much as I've found :

http://www.ehow.com/how_8373905_make-anh...hanol.html

http://www.beechems.com/molecular-sieves.html

http://www.interraglobal.com/molecular-s...ular-sieve

http://delloyd.50megs.com/moreinfo/drying.html

http://www.grace.com/products/sylobead/

http://65.39.72.142/Term.aspx?t=10858860&org=50

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewt...0&tid=7174

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthr...p?t=105582