I am really interested in the effect of pheromones as they directly relate to the changes they bring about in people due to the preferences people have for one Cognitive Process over another.

There are 8 Jungian Cognitive Processes, they are the basis of the MBTI (Meyers Briggs Type Indicator) personality test. They are Ne/Ni, Se/Si, Fe/Fi, The Edge/Ti.

From Hartzlers book, which is awesome and genius in my opinion in helping understand that MBTI is not a horoscope but a tool in categorizing cognitive processes, I show the info for the 8 types.


Se-examples
I notice, directly experience, and trust data provided by my five senses; seeing, hearing,
feeling, smelling, and tasting.
I continuously scan the external world using my five senses for particu lar. specific, and
indisputable data.
I have the ability to discriminate small differences between objects as I experience them.
My attention tends to be on the present moment and current experience rather than on past
events or future possibilities.
I focus on the context of the present situation.
I seek sensory stimulation from the outer world.
I recognize that the real world is exactly what it appears to be and work with the data
provided by it.
When involved in a sport I am able to "be the ball," and/or when driving I am able to "be the car.

Si-examples
I am aware, at a detailed level, of what is going on in my body, including my emotional state.
I collect detailed information, react to it, and store my internal reactions along with the information.
I can vividly recall previous experiences, including specific data absorbed from the external
world as well as internal reactions tied to the memories.
I store and retrieve detailed information in the sequence in which it happened.
I compare current experience against stored past impressions and experiences.
I feel more comfortable when processes are repeatable.
I am comfortable with and attempt to maintain traditions.
I attempt to do tasks as efficiently as possible, thus conserving energy.

Ne-examples
I scan the external world picking up patterns, connections, and interrelationships between
people, objects, and events.
I notice missing parts or steps in patterns.
External events trigger my awareness of potential, alternatives, or patterns that then provide
me with the basis for change.
I see ways to change incongruous patterns, connections, and interrelationships.
I take existing ideas and link them together in new and interesting ways.
I generate usable possibilities for change in the external world.
I constantly am looking for ways to change things to make them "better" and have little energy
for maintaining things as they are.
I usually find something positive to see in situations.

Ni-examples
I get insights that seem to come out of thin air and I have learned to rely on them.
I get insights into intrinsic patterns and connections that may not seem to be linked to
the external world.
I reflect on ideas and inner patterns from many perspectives.
I am aware that if I am patient, whatever I am perceiving will become crystal clear, and I rely on
that one perception as being the data I should trust.
I see things as they ultimately can be.
I am energized by and make meaningful connections using visions, images, and symbols.
I interpret the intent behind situations, communications, or happenings.

T'e-examples
I objectively define the scope of problems.
I set or identify measurable goals for my efforts and the efforts of other people.
I logically determine sequences and priorities needed to efficiently complete a task, or
manage a program.
I communicate concisely and logically the steps necessary to reach a goal, complete a task or
solve a problem: "Take step 1, then step 2, then step 3."
I use logic to convince others to work toward goals or to accept my position in a discussion.
I objectively organize the external world (people, time, space, and things) to
achieve measurable goals.
I turn effective processes and procedures into performance standards, rules, and regulations.
I evaluate performance against measurable goals and standards.

Ti-examples
I organize data and ideas into a logical internal framework or sets of categories.
I seek data to fill "holes" in my models, frameworks, blueprints, and logical taxonomies.
I use my inner understanding of how ideas and things logically fit together to help me
understand how things work.
I modify models and frameworks to accommodate new data, thereby preserving inner
logical consistency.
I seek precision in the use of words and in my internal models, frameworks, and blueprints.
I logically prioritize categories and components of models in terms of the needs of a situation.
I restructure my priorities based on connections between categories.
I make decisions based on my category priorities.
I seek logical consistency in my life.
I use precise language to try to get the world to understand logical conceptual models
and/or blueprints.


Fe-examples
I look for and identify group norms. Fe1
I internalize cultural values and make them my own. Fe2
I know what is appropriate behavior in a given culture or situation and act accordingly. Fe2
Because I consider it important, I establish and build relationships with other people. Fe3
I build relationships by disclosing things about myself. Fe4
In order to establish or maintain relationships with other people. I act to meet their needs. Fe5
I organize the external world to support group harmony. Fe6
I assess other people's emotional states by watching their behavior. Fe7
I will do just about anything to maintain relationships with others who matter to me even if this
FeB
creates internal tension for me.
I judge my own and other people's behavior according to cultural norms. Fe9
I attempt to educate others as to the appropriate behaviors that will help them fit in. Fe10

Fi-examples
I subjectively use my emotions to inform me of what is important to me.
I seek to know what is truly important to me, my deeply held values.
I am aware of universal personal values.
I maintain internal harmony and personal integrity by adhering to my deeply held values.
I know what is truly important to me and use this knowledge to guide decisions.
I value all living things, attempting to allow each to maintain its own integrity.
I assess other people's emotional states by reading my own internal reactions.
I judge ideas, attitudes, and behaviors according to my values.
I crusade for what is right even if it creates tension with the external world and may
endanger a personal relationship.

Each of these lists has a companion section in the book that gives exercises/activities that are used for developing that Specific Cognitive Function. These activity descriptions do much more to reveal what is meant by the single sentence in the list, this clarifies the ambiguity that can be seen in some of the lists.

Jung's work is really interesting. I'm an INFJ and my most used cognitive functions from individual testing is Ni, Ne, Fe, Ti in that order. I score very low on Se and almost nonexistent on Si. I'm not sure how mones affect me from others but when I wear them I definitely become more confident. I did react with headache and anxiety in the beginning when using heavy none mixes but it has disappeared with use. I do notice very easily the difference on people when I wear mones since I'm quite good at reading body language. I can usually tell people lying, did a test for that once and scored 10/10 when guessing on ten different people.

I found thru taking the tests in this book that even though I'm an ENFP by testing, and I identify most with ENFP & ENTP by reading about their traits, and my wife says I'm an ENTP more than ENFP, that I don't have the usual 1,2,3,4 in the cognitive functions.

Now, perhaps these tests are subjective, and all authors have said that some people don't fall into these regular patterns.

I found that I score higher on Ti than T'e [note: if you don't use the ' in T'e the forum website will automatically change it to say "The Edge" a pheromone product.] Making me think that Duniho's statement that some E types will like Extroverting so much that they will gravitate to the E functions of their other Cognitive Processes and test as a different type. I can believe this wonder what type of category that puts me in.

It seems that ENFP & ENTP are very close to start with, only the #3 & #4 are switched in both order and the I/E.
ENFP = 1-Ne, 2-Fi, 3-The Edge, 4-Si
ENTP = 1-Ne, 2-Ti, 3-Fe, 4-Si

I have very strong Ne, Ni,
strong Fi, T'e, Ti,
I also have a strong Se Function, much higher than my Si. My Si is very low. My Fe is kindof low.
in order of strength i'd say: Ne, Ni, T'e, Fi, Ti, Se, Fe, Si
Which could also point to me being INTJ, because of the order of Ni,T'e,Fi,Se.

I do identify with many of the types, ENFP, ENTP, INFP, INTP, MAYBE SOME INTJ.

It is nice to know that it isn't just the 16 types of the MBTI, they are just a gross level of dividing people into groups. It is really dependant on how you use your skill sets / cognitive processes. And perhaps if you develop all your cognitive processes you can do it all, maybe.

from Hartzler & Harzler "Functions of Type" p58 showing the common preference for each MBTI Personality Type's use of the 8 Jungian Cognitive Functions.

here is a graph of relative Jungian Function Strengths for different Meyers Briggs (MBTI) personality types.
This is the general steriotype, but I know from the list above that describes the functions that I fall far from this general trend type of graph. I'll post mine next based on Hartzler's lists.

So I did my own graph using the criteria in the book, then i averaged the scores and since the book had a 1-5 scale, I multiplied by 2 to get a scale from 0-10, but in actuality it goes from 2-10, since the lowest number in Hartler's book was 1 and I multiplied it by 2, 2 is the lowest it goes.

Here is where I showed up.

as you can see, it is not a simple 2 or 3 peaks like the books say. But it also shows how i feel alot of similarities to many of the 16 types as shown in Kiersey's book "Please Understand Me II", such as the ENFP, INFP, ENTP, INFP, INFJ, ESFP, ISFP, ISTP, ESTP. It's because I've developed the other cognitive processes as well, and if I use them, I end up feeling like that other personality type.

And I do use them, and this is why I end up identifying with those personality types when I read about them in MBTI books.

I didn't know to look for this until I read in Duniho's book about how "E" extroverted types sometimes test as different types because they prefer their dominant function, which in my case is Ne, and then develop the other extroverted functions, because they like "E" extroverting so much.

So I looked back at the test and "whoa" why do I have high Se? and if I'm an ENFP, why is my Fe higher than my Fi?, and why is my T'e higher than my TI? It points to what Duniho said in his book, that many ENTP's will test as ENFP's because they like the "E" extroverted senses and develop the 3rd function more than the 2nd function because the 3rd will be an "E" while the 2nd is an "I".

Apparently I took it further and developed all 4 of the "E" functions. Maybe this is why I am such a strong "P" type. Always looking for new things and ideas to explore. And not much of a "J" type, closers who finish tasks.

Now the next part is to figure out which 'mones amplify or turn on the 8 individual cognitive functions, and which 'mones suppress or turn off individual cognitive functions.

It seems that self effects will be felt differently by different people.
People with high numbers will not really feel self effects from 'mones that "turn on" functions they already use daily. They may be more susceptible to feel self effects that "turn off" functions that they use daily.

But when self effects are noticable, is it that we notice a "turn on" or a "turn off". I think we need to look into these and determine which JCP (Jungian Cognitive Process) is getting the On/Off from the 'mones. Then we can find out if other people will be susceptible to it, based on if they use that JCP daily or not.

I think we need to develop some tests that will help determine if we experience an increase or decrease in a certain JCP. Maybe some reaction test or bar game type test that tells us if our reaction time has increased or decreased.

I'm INTP and I think my strongest processes are Ne, Ti and Fi. I'm usually oblivious to self effects but one thing I have noticed is that certain blends make me emotional and depressed. They're blends that are heavy in EST and DHEAS.

(01-28-2014 11:04 PM)fuzzcat Wrote:  I'm INTP and I think my strongest processes are Ne, Ti and Fi. I'm usually oblivious to self effects but one thing I have noticed is that certain blends make me emotional and depressed. They're blends that are heavy in EST and DHEAS.

So the next question would be:
Are they making you fee emotional and depressed when they turn your NE/TI/FI off, or are they turning another JCP on.

I'll look at that Nardi book again and see if anything correlates with those mixes of JCP & emotion/depressed.

Is it when they (EST & DHEAS) are combined, or even seperate?

And emotion and depressed are good for starters, but is there anything specific in narrowing it down, or activities or things you feel this way about, no pressure on figuring it out, just asking because there are so many things that a person can be emotional about.

this image shows how INTP's as Rational/_NT_ are represented with having this type of Self-Image.


If you feel you aren't Ingenious you will feel a hit to your Self-Esteem.
If you feel you aren't Autonomous you will feel a hit to your Self-Respect.
If you feel you aren't Resolute you will feel a hit to your Self-Confidence.

Different MBTI types will feel stress across these categories. When you felt emotional, could one of these 16 terms relate to how you felt emotional? I'm guessing it was a negative emotional response with the EST & DHEAS because of the "depressed" comment. That is why I thought of these stress triggers as possible cues.

(below is a hypothetical example, it is not a correlation to EST or DHEAS)
Perhaps as an example you felt "Undependable" and that made you depressed. This could mean that those 'mones turned on your Gaurdian/SJ Processes in your brain, and the "Need to feel Dependable" that usually didn't exist in the Rational/NT type processes that you use the most appeared because you started to use your brain like a Gaurdian/SJ.

I think it's est and dheas combined. When I wear blends heavy in est without the dheas, I don't get the same result. Maybe the youthful femininity vibe makes me feel like a hormonal teenager. It makes me feel insecure, easily hurt and like I need validation from others. I'm not sure how this relates to the cognitive processes. Maybe it turns on Fe?

(01-30-2014 1:39 AM)fuzzcat Wrote:  I think it's est and dheas combined. When I wear blends heavy in est without the dheas, I don't get the same result. Maybe the youthful femininity vibe makes me feel like a hormonal teenager. It makes me feel insecure, easily hurt and like I need validation from others. I'm not sure how this relates to the cognitive processes. Maybe it turns on Fe?

Wow. you are very descriptive in that response. Please give more responses, what you said in those 6 sentences is gold. Don't stop now, dig deeper. This is better content than most posters on this forum have ever given.

I see in this chart (below) how the Idealist NF type under "Value" Prizing=Recognition.
If you are feeling an increase in Fe, that could translate into acting/feeling life and NF instead of an NT. I agree that the Fe function from the list of 10 skills listed above might be that feeling the need for validation from others.


It may be this sudden onrush of the Fe process and how it is different from your Thinking style process(es) that accounts for the emotional feelings and the depression. The (T) thinking types (both Ti & T'e) are sometimes described as cold or hard when compared to the (F) Feeling types. Could looking thru the lens of (T) hide the thoughts or elements that are revealed when looking thru the lens of (F)? And when revealed by (F) cause the depressed feelings? Or maybe it is not increased (F), but a loss of (T) ability where you have the same amount of (F) as before, but with the loss of (T) you can no longer rationalize away what makes you depressed by using logic, and without that logic ability you are more susceptible to the emotion/depression.