So I presume NONE of you use Garry's stuff? He doesn't reveal anything, so by your own words his stuff must suck? Seriously weak argument! Pretty lame actually.

Mustang, I'm going to respond to you here as well.

I started this forum because I didn't like where things were headed over there. Lots of the old timers were leaving, I didn't really buy into the whole premise of being about research anymore, and I didn't like that the list of unmentionable companies seemed to keep growing.

But, I didn't bad mouth them on my way out, nor do anything to try to cause them harm. I just quietly walked away.

I created this forum as a little haven and maybe even new home for others that may have felt like I did, and was possibly their motives for leving as well.

This forum was not started as an Androtics bashing ground, and I even lashed out at a former admin we had and defended Androtics when he attempted to use this forum to spew his hatred for Androtics. And the same can be siad when it came to Diane and her constant attempts to discredit Anrdrotics as well.

And, I had no ill feeelings for Jasmin or pherotalk when I left. I just didn't believe much of what she was telling me and saw it as more NLP tactics and smoke screens.

However, after starting this forum I soon learned that jasmin was bad mouthing me to pretty much anyone that would listen, and calling us the evil empire.

She then went on to send in one of her minions to make up a bunch of lies, misdirect and try to cause problems here, until we called him on it and he ran off with his tail between his legs.

Then a member made an innocent mention of pherotruth as a source of information in answer to a question in a post, and that reference was deleted and the member PM'd and told not to do it again. This was not a link to our forum, but simply mentioning it by name.

Then I find out that she blamed ME for her supposed miscarriage.

And now John's making up lies about this forum being used by a company, me being paid, and criminal activity. As has been previously stated several times now, we do have a few affiliate agreements, but those agreements are in place for the members benefit, and it's because of those agreement that we're able to offer the discounts, freebies and promotions that we're able to put together from time to time.

Pardon me if I respond by laying the cards on the table for all to see. I never had any intention of trying to bump heads or get into pissing matches with Androtics, I just wanted to create a place where poeple could talk about any company and any products they wanted to. But, when I am defamed, slandered and attacked, I am going to respond, and I'm going to reveal things I've discovered that they probably would not like known.

If John wants to keep it up, we can start talking about who Michael Harris really is, how, why and in what condition he left his ex-wife, why Stone Labs refuses to deal with them anymore, and a few other issues that they probably really don't want brought up.

Or, we can go back to leaving our members to discuss the issues they care to talk about, without throwing stones at each other. And, they can just go ahead and continue censoring out anything their members say that makes them uncomfortable or draws attention to anything they are trying to avoid.

Its John's call!

(06-20-2011 5:42 PM)SteveO Wrote:  So I presume NONE of you use Garry's stuff? He doesn't reveal anything, so by your own words his stuff must suck? Seriously weak argument! Pretty lame actually.

I disagree with his policy as well. But I think you've overlooked an awful lot of meatier issues in order to make this quip.

(06-20-2011 5:42 PM)SteveO Wrote:  So I presume NONE of you use Garry's stuff? He doesn't reveal anything, so by your own words his stuff must suck? Seriously weak argument! Pretty lame actually.

True, however, he doesn't for example say Aqua Vitae contains Androstenone and then remove it when he runs out and let his customers continue to buy it unaware he's taken out a key ingredient.

Also, he sells unmixed mones, with their full chemical names, so its pretty safe to assume a few of those listed make an appearance in the mixes.

Mark,

I've never, at least in what I've seen happen, haven't really seen your name mentioned there. I've enjoyed your posts and actually for myself have made some of my mixes and tests based off of many of the old members, like yourself, testing.

Now take it for what it's worth but when the A314 sprays came out, I can tell you that from the MX347 research, the 1.23 versions were pretty much fromt he observations from everyone in the forum about the quick hitting ability of it, and in it's scent package.

Regardless, both sides aren't completely right. I jumped in because in my perception someone called tisha out at first, and I wanted to say something at that point, then that's when that thread just got sidelined to a whole other degree.

(06-20-2011 5:42 PM)SteveO Wrote:  So I presume NONE of you use Garry's stuff? He doesn't reveal anything, so by your own words his stuff must suck? Seriously weak argument! Pretty lame actually.

In all actuality, I don't own any products from his site....
I've heard good things about them, though.

Where is all of this heading? Seems like we're heading toward a perpetual pissing contest.

(06-20-2011 6:23 PM)JAYCEE Wrote:  Where is all of this heading? Seems like we're heading toward a perpetual pissing contest.

Sorry, it's just always irked me that they don't divulge product contents due to my OCD desire to read labels (grocery trips take me around 3 hrs, usually).

(06-20-2011 5:42 PM)SteveO Wrote:  So I presume NONE of you use Garry's stuff? He doesn't reveal anything, so by your own words his stuff must suck? Seriously weak argument! Pretty lame actually.

This is irrelevant since the issue was not revealing the formulas of androtics' products, but revealing the names of some of the common putatives. When you buy single molecules from Garry, he doesn't mask their names.

Mustang, I do commend you for standing up for what you believe in, and I thank you for not turning this thread into another pissing match, as it would have been all to easy to do.

I used to be extrememly loyal to Androtics and their biggest fanboy, and I would venomously defend them when the occasion arose.

But shit happens, and I'll not get into all the reeasons why again, but they lost my faith, trust and support.

You may think we're not completely on the up and up here, and Diane alleged the same thing, which is a big part of the reason we now have Beccah and dbot on board as administrators, and they have complete access to everything and know everything that goes on with the forum. But to be honest, there's very little that goes on behind the scenes that our members aren't privvy to, and what does is mainly just bouncing ideas back and forth and trying to make the forum a better place for the members.

I'll not try to change your mind, or turn you against Androtics in any way, and you are always welcome here.

Just know though, that while I'll never initiate an attack, if someone comes at me or this forum, I will strike back and venomously defend the forum and myself, and I'll use whatever TRUTHFUL information I have at hand to strike harder.