(12-27-2014 11:08 PM)DrHorrible Wrote:  LAL AV? I've never tried it. I don't buy anything without an ingredient list.

So what companies do you buy from?And how can you trust the ingredient list?

(12-28-2014 6:11 AM)stefdude Wrote:  So what companies do you buy from?And how can you trust the ingredient list?

Ok, maybe that wasn't completly honest. I do use P83. But as far as mixes go, I really only use alpha dream these days, or mix my own. I'm not so picky about ingredients because of health concerns or anything like that; I'm just cheap and don't want to pay for a simple cheap mix that I can make myself. Androtics is a bit of an exception because most of their their putatives that test well haven't been identified, to my knowledge. I really wish I knew what P83 is.

I use Glace and L'uomo from alpha dream. IMO, glace is really cost effective and convenient for the amount of androstenols, and relevant to this thread, smells great because of them. I realize that Luomo is marketed for gay men, but it's unique in that it has no androstadienone and is high in androstadienol (unfortunately it doesn't list which isomer). Luomo has a mostly androstenone smell to me despite it being the second to last phero in the ingredients. I assume androstanone smells similar, although I've never encountered the isolated molecule.

As far as trusting ingredients, I suppose you can never fully trust one. But, Chris has been (was?) active in the community with development and testing of molecules. I don't doubt his ingredients, and he uses some that I can't/haven't obtained.

I never really paid attention to "androstatrione" when people here spoke about it -- I never saw it anywhere. I believe there's some confusion between the name "trione" for this and for "androstenetrione." Anyway, I just saw the structure (3,16,17-trione) on http://www.pherluvpheromones.com/ and I was like YES. This goes with my theory of 16/17 sp2 carbons.

Has anyone smelled this? does it smell like androstenone?

(12-26-2014 12:34 AM)DrHorrible Wrote:  I can smell, and perfectly discriminate between androstadienone, androstenone, and androstenols (hard to tell which isomer though). Interestingly, these are the Pheromones with a double bond between carbon 16 and 17.

I can't smell androsterone or epiandrosterone much when it's fresh, but a few minutes to an hour on my skin and it has an odor. I'm still working on the chemistry behind that.
androsterones have a double bonded oxygen on carbon 17.

[chemistry digression: In all of the above, carbon 17 is sp2 hybridized. In the easily detected ones, both 16 and 17 are. It's worth noting that this affects the shape and strain of the D ring and would thus likely affect which receptors it can bind to. These are the most studied pheromones. ]

I'm a total noob here so forgive my ignorance. I was reading this http://www.sirc.org/publik/smell_attract.html which says the following:

Quote:Androstenol is the scent produced by fresh male sweat, and is attractive to females. Androstenone is produced by male sweat after exposure to oxygen – i.e. when less fresh – and is perceived as highly unpleasant by females (except during ovulation, when their responses change from ‘negative’ to ‘neutral’).

I don't know how that plays into actual ability to smell it, but it seems to be a component of "Hey mr. Workout, you need a shower!"
That being said, does this indicated that Androstenol turns into Androstenone when oxidized, or are they saying that Androstenol is there at first, but Androstenone comes later and overpowers (or combines with) Androstenol? It says the male sweat produces Androstenol, not that it comes from the Androstenone so I think I answered my own question.

I'm just on a "educational quest" to understand how and why we produce these pheromones naturally when I came across this.

Androstenol is a secondary alcohol, and androstenone is its corresponding ketone, a product of its oxidation.

(04-07-2015 3:53 PM)WhiteNoise309 Wrote:  I'm a total noob here so forgive my ignorance. I was reading this http://www.sirc.org/publik/smell_attract.html which says the following:

I don't know how that plays into actual ability to smell it, but it seems to be a component of "Hey mr. Workout, you need a shower!"
That being said, does this indicated that Androstenol turns into Androstenone when oxidized, or are they saying that Androstenol is there at first, but Androstenone comes later and overpowers (or combines with) Androstenol? It says the male sweat produces Androstenol, not that it comes from the Androstenone so I think I answered my own question.

I'm just on a "educational quest" to understand how and why we produce these pheromones naturally when I came across this.

I can and it makes me feel tired and sleepy. Is that a sign that my testo level is low?

DP is very very smelly lol
One of the strongest of all my products, only True Essence is stringer and worse smelling.

I've used several unscented mone products including Evolve from PXS. My wife said, "You smell really good!" when wearing Evolve.
I know it's not pure Androstenone but the Androstenone in it isn't repelling to her her or me. She liked it.

I've tried DP and Ascend with Cops, I must have a bad nose because although I can smell 'something' other than alcohol and scent it doesn't smell bad to me!

I think I'm getting a handle on Androstenone - it smells vaguely of brake/hydraulic fluid! Anyone else think that?

It would be nice to have the age of those people here who can smell androstenone.

Androstenon is perceived as more pleasant at low concentrations and less pleasant at high concentration, and while the ability to detect the odor is in part genetically determined, the age of the person also plays a role. From the Scent of Eros book:

"Children and adults report strikingly different responses to androstenone. As we move through our teen years, many of us become more sensitive to lower concentrations of androstenone and consider it more pleasant. At the same time, the percentage of people who can detect this odor declines throughout adolescence. (...) The proportion of males who cannot smell androstenone triples during puberty, the very time boys start producing this pheromone. About half of the men who initially reported they could not detect this odor regained a sensitivity to it after being exposed to it for a time. (...)
As for women and androstenone, they are more sensitive to this scent than men. They are also likely to describe the odor as unpleasant, at least when it is found in high concentrations"

Now, with regards to women it could be that they are more sensitive to none as they are more sensitive to any odor due to their levels of Estrogen and Testosterone. High levels of testosterone reduces sense of smell. On the other hand Estrogen enhances the sense of smell, so it's not surprising that women are hundred times more sensitive than men to odors, including musky, sweaty odors. And that sensitivity fluctuates during their menstrual cycles.

So perhaps as a general rule, men with low T levels/higher Estrogen levels are more sensitive to mones' odors, while for women that would depend on where they are in their cycle.

M.