Galileo's championing of heliocentrism and Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime, when most subscribed to either geocentrism or the Tychonic system. He met with opposition from astronomers, who doubted heliocentrism due to the absence of an observed stellar parallax. The matter was investigated by the Roman Inquisition in 1615, and they concluded that it could only be supported as a possibility, not as an established fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

Seems weird now knowing what we know about the relationship between the Earth and the Sun. Seems strange that so many people opposed the facts. So now 400 years later we see that the Roman Inquisition of 1615 we a bunch of dummies.

Galileo talked until he was red in the face. Presented his own observations and to what avail?

On 31 October 1992, Pope John Paul II expressed regret for how the Galileo affair was handled, and issued a declaration acknowledging the errors committed by the Catholic Church tribunal that judged the scientific positions of Galileo Galilei.

(09-27-2015 6:56 PM)greengrenade Wrote:  What is the advantage of wearing EST? To make a woman feel comfortable around the wearer?

Wearing EST make a many seem to be a woman. So that woman you are trying to woo thinks that you are another female. You are sent directly to the friend-zone because you are both women. EST makes you smell more like a women. Women are comfortable around other women.

(09-27-2015 5:43 PM)Ekscentra Wrote:  It's a wonder many of the most popular male blends are filled with excessive amounts of EST - Wolf, X22, Evolve, and L2K just to name a few. We have an entire community in denial of what it does.

What other products contain EST, is there a list somewhere?

Been there, done that.


Ive learned a lot in my 10+ years of medical studies and occupation. I've even tested a considerable amount of EST-aerosol pure ... and did endocrine monitoring to accompany it.

Nothing wrong with presenting your case, if you like to paraphase your claims that way, and I've the right to disagree.
And that I do on your notion on what EST and Hedione do in and to a pheromone mix.

I also trust published results more than what a commercial, biased vendor states on its webpage.

I find your thin-skinned implications on my IQ or age are pathetic btw - also your way of self-styling yourself as someone of extraordinary importance or merit in the phero-hobbiysts field.

(09-28-2015 6:39 AM)Paradox Wrote:  Galileo's championing of heliocentrism and Copernicanism was controversial within his lifetime, when most subscribed to either geocentrism or the Tychonic system. He met with opposition from astronomers, who doubted heliocentrism due to the absence of an observed stellar parallax. The matter was investigated by the Roman Inquisition in 1615, and they concluded that it could only be supported as a possibility, not as an established fact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

Seems weird now knowing what we know about the relationship between the Earth and the Sun. Seems strange that so many people opposed the facts. So now 400 years later we see that the Roman Inquisition of 1615 we a bunch of dummies.

Galileo talked until he was red in the face. Presented his own observations and to what avail?

On 31 October 1992, Pope John Paul II expressed regret for how the Galileo affair was handled, and issued a declaration acknowledging the errors committed by the Catholic Church tribunal that judged the scientific positions of Galileo Galilei.


Wearing EST make a many seem to be a woman. So that woman you are trying to woo thinks that you are another female. You are sent directly to the friend-zone because you are both women. EST makes you smell more like a women. Women are comfortable around other women.

and you speak of "attention their fathers did'nt give them" Galilei?

It's a non-argument, and further testament to your pitiful self-perception

So a few mcg make males semm like females? Disregarding all other factors and sense-perceptions? Is there a corresponding male-mone that will do that?
Did I get laid or kiss-close with Est or hedione containing mixes? Yes. Others? Yes. Is that a conclusive proof to contradict your thesis? Yes, at least in regard of the quantities of EST.
Are your theories conclusive? No, in not a single scientific criterium.
Your entire assertions and lack of arguments, esp. your recent post on your "importance" over at your androtics-journal, ooze of insecurity and frustration. I feel no inclination to encounter in a ponintless web-argument with someone of such a disposition.

If LIIK v.1 has EST in it, it does NOT make me a woman or anything close. It is a stand out product that flat out makes women think I am sexy. What makes me think that is that they want to have sex with me, then do have sex with me.

I think this is a supremely interesting hobby. I also think that figuring each molecule out, and also figuring what each blend of combined multiple molecules does is fascinating.

I think most agree that most or at least some of these things work very differently for different people. Therefore there is not an exact science with all of this stuff. Most statements that say MixA will absolutely do this, and MixB will do this. Well it is all a work in progress, and very well could work differently for different people. It's why you have to try it out.

I don't even pay that much attention to what all the ingredients are in a blend. There is a curiosity of which pheromone is the base that steers the mix, but I am more interested in if it works and how it works for me.

I guess I don't understand why there is such a strong push to make it clear that EST makes one seem like a woman. Isn't the story that 'mones are only 10% of the equation? Nobody is going to think I am a women because I wear a blend that has a small amount of EST in it. Again, I really don't know what is in LIIK, but I am sexy to women when I am wearing it. And not one do I know of was any part lesbian either.

I do not write this to disagree. I simply write this to report how it works for me. I don't have a pony in this race to be right about.

IMO, wearing a product that gets you laid, has lay reports from many users, and/or reports of women flooding their panties - then it's all good in my book, whatever is in it.

Love this thread, this is exactly what forums are for, two different educated opinions. Paradox, I hope you engage with George on this as it will likely educate the rest of us. For example, I only realised the other day that when people were talking about EST they meant Oestratetraenol (English spelling... lazy Americans ;). George, I don't think Paradox was intentionally trying to insult you just giving his reasons for not engaging in arguments online in general, not sure what the Galileo reference was about though.

I myself have seen great results from Wolf. Let's say Paradox and Eks are right, I'm a big guy, assertive, bearded, manly looking and behaving IMO. Maybe EST is useful for me because it feminizes me, makes me less intimidating and more approachable. Depending on the situation this could be exactly what I want. There just seems like there are too many variables here to make such definitive conclusions... but my knowledge is limited to the superficial in mone matters.

Some years back i tested A314 + 10-20 mcg EST. My girlfriend was like "I'm not your mom, you should learn to look after yourself".
Friends around me got concerned about my general wellbeing.
Guess it could be a matter of dosage/mix but surely there must be better alternatives for increasing comfort than wearing a pheromone only excreted by pregnant women(?).

(09-27-2015 5:03 PM)Paradox Wrote:  Some information about Estratetraenol from LaCroy (the Vendor/creator of New Pheromone Additive).

http://www.lacroy.co.za/index.php?route=...ation_id=4

"Estratetraenol , which is related to estrogen (the female sex hormone) creates an aura of ultra-femininity & feminine sensual appeal."

Paradox - what are your own experiences wearing Est as a solo or part of a mix?

The only product I've done a lot of testing on that contains it is Evolve, which is turning out to be a nice workplace product - so I can attest that Est containing products can be effective in certain circumstances. Unfortunately, I've no idea whether Evolve would be more or less effective without the Est.

(09-28-2015 11:01 AM)Macro Wrote:  I myself have seen great results from Wolf. Let's say Paradox and Eks are right, I'm a big guy, assertive, bearded, manly looking and behaving IMO. Maybe EST is useful for me because it feminizes me, makes me less intimidating and more approachable.

This has been my experience as well

It all comes back to congruence, people never approach me or smile without mones because I have an intimidating look. I've had multiple people tell me that when they first met me they felt nervous to get close, but once they got to know me it was fine. Wolf speeds this up, the only people who invade my space is other women but men still keep a distance and don't come close unless I invite them in.

Wolf may be a bad name and it probably shouldn't be classified as an alpha product like a314 or captain but for many of us it has served us well of both projecting our alpha vibe and then softening it to make it more approachable.