I'm thinking of lowering the 5HTP dose. I'm getting depression after use still.
On the plus side, longjack doesn't seem to cause aversion for a friend who reacts badly to androstenone but responds well to androsterone.

Okay, I tried a mix containing this stuff around a younger friend who is fairly Androstenone averse but responds well to Androsterone. She responded well. Wife was around and she didn't seem jealous like I'd get with alpha-Androsterone. That's a positive sign that this stuff might have a broader impact in terms of age range, (at least at the ~5mcg range, and buffered with stuff like nols, dienone, est and a little (~.3 mcg) beta Androsterone. ) Or it could be that 5HTP reduces jealousy, which was another theory I had... Sorry for throwing in too many variables, but at least now I can work backwards to see which one (or both) was responsible.

(01-20-2013 10:22 AM)Snipes Wrote:  You can achieve the same effect as the previous days, but you will need a significantly higher dosage. If there is a better method of absorption to the blood other than ingestion I would be interested in hearing it, since the effects on yourself are great.

I've read that any steroid like molecule below 400 molecular weight can be administered transdermal. Like testosterone in androgel, estradiol, progesterone, DHEA, Pregnenolone can all be topically applied to skin for absorption and get higher absorption rates than if you ingest them. The lotion/liquid they are carried in plays a big role in the absorption rate, up to 50%.

Sub-lingual (dissolve under tongue) is another method of bypassing the gastro-intestinal track as a route of administration. I take some vitamins sub-lingually.

B12 is good for sub-lingual over ingesting. It has a molecular weight of 1355.37 g/mol. Which is larger than the Eurycoma molecule above.

The taste of the stuff may keep you from absorbing it sub-lingual if it tastes gross. I take DHEA/Pregnenolone/T3/T4 sublingually.

(01-19-2013 11:29 PM)wiserd Wrote:  Thanks for the feedback. It sucks that tolerance develops so quickly. I wonder what the mechanism is for tolerance and whether a pheromonal application might extend the effects. Though your experience doesn't bode well on that count. Damn.

I was reading up on pill forms of tongkat and the pill bottle suggested having 5 days on and 2 days off or 10 days on and 5 days off. You might have to take it cyclically for some results. Also where did you buy your tongkat from.

(01-22-2013 9:17 PM)LL21 Wrote:  I was reading up on pill forms of tongkat and the pill bottle suggested having 5 days on and 2 days off or 10 days on and 5 days off. You might have to take it cyclically for some results. Also where did you buy your tongkat from.

Who were you asking? I got mine from Purebulk. The link is in the OP and I'm only testing the stuff as a pheromone, not for muscle gain or personal sexual enhancement which is what most people do with it.

the comment was directed to you wiserd.

I was thinking that if there is a build up for oral consumption it might have a buildup for absorption through the skin as well.

I guess I just overlooked the purebulk part

(01-22-2013 10:39 PM)LL21 Wrote:  the comment was directed to you wiserd.

I was thinking that if there is a build up for oral consumption it might have a buildup for absorption through the skin as well.

I guess I just overlooked the purebulk part

Oh, sure. Got it. And on that note, I wish I had a better understanding of all the various mechanisms of tolerance. I mean, I realize that sometimes receptors become fewer in number and sometimes the immune system removes certain chemicals and sometimes the liver gets better at destroying the chemicals... But which in each case, what are the chances and methods of undoing any particular tolerance mechanism. It seems like there should be some sort of second order response that goes beyond just 'cycle on, cycle off.' That's not related to pheromones, but you'd think with all the demand for something like that that there'd be more breakthroughs along those lines.

On an almost similar note, I remember reading about how NMDA receptor antagonism helped with preventing opioid tolerance.