(11-30-2018 8:10 AM)Snoopyace Wrote:  I'm so confused. If EST attraction is fake and not sexual then why are woman asking to have sex with me when I'm wearing Est containing blends?

1. For clarification, is this women (plural) or woman?

2. Estrogens can cause a stress reaction, and even hyper-sexual behaviour, which might be what members are seeing with women being sexual aggressive........and would also explain why some mixes don't work on "healthy" women (which are very rare these days due to estrogen in birth control). Basically mixes are making women hyper-sexual + making the wearer appear nonthreatening (as a woman).

Having said that, you would probably have to run an experiment with something like Preg./DHEA/Androsterone vs standard pheromone mix used here to see if the sexual response is different.

My gut tells me that the phero community might have a major misunderstanding of the dynamics of women's reactions to these mixes, but I'm still researching this. Strange how few, if any, chemicals have been avoided by the entire community due to health concerns.

Women plural. Happened multiple times while wearing THU, Evolve, The Love God. All mixes that are either suspected to or known to contain EST. Happens much more often than with non Est mixes like M3x or Aqua Vitae. With those, the attraction is there but there isn’t the invitation.

It may just boil down to everyone’s different body chemistry. EST works well with my chemistry to, for whatever reason get women more vocal about their attraction (as well as more physical.)

I tested the Love God both without and then with EST and I saw a dramatic difference not just in KINO but also in women being more vocal about their interest being more than platonic. Those are just my personal observations, however. Others may have different experiences which is why it is good that we have such an amazing array of products to choose from.

(11-30-2018 8:10 AM)Snoopyace Wrote:  I'm so confused. If EST attraction is fake and not sexual then why are woman asking to have sex with me when I'm wearing Est containing blends?

Because your such a big, burly guy Snoop

(11-30-2018 10:11 AM)dsouza Wrote:  Because your such a big, burly guy Snoop

Ahhhhh... Okay. Sorry for derailing this thread, please continue with the L2K discussion.

I haven't tried it yet so I don't really have anything to contribute to the discussion.

My theory is that it may also depend on how the user behaves with/drives a mix with Est in it. If there's sexual interest/tension between the two (the woman and the user), it's up to the user (the man) to escalate things between the two. If you don't, she may lose (sexual) interest in you, and you ending up in her friendzone. This is again, just a theory, which I based on previous experience when I was a young buck and did not know how to read women's behaviors, or was just too scared to escalate things further.

I'm with snoopy on this.I haven't seen any friendzoning from Est, I really believes it gives the extra boost in disinhibition/comfort/kino without making you beta, at least I haven't seen anything related.They want to fuck, not hang out like best girlfriends.

I stayed out of FZ by asking women who showed tremendous interest out on dates. Either they didn't expect the invitation which is wierd given their interest or they accepted it by saying yes to dates etc. The few that said yes to dates flipped when I contacted them. So something is triggering extreme interest and then level 5 nutcase disinterest. You could argue it's game but I used similar game with m3x. And just because a woman likes to tell you'll she'll fuck doesn't mean she's anything more than talk unless a fclose happens. I've had dates where manipulative women have constantly talked about fucking just to get free drinks for the night.

In the end compliance, not attention, iis still the ultimate metric.

(11-30-2018 3:57 PM)dsouza Wrote:  And just because a woman likes to tell you'll she'll fuck doesn't mean she's anything more than talk unless a fclose happens. I've had dates where manipulative women have constantly talked about fucking just to get free drinks for the night.

In the end closing is still the ultimate metric.

Unless she's reaching for your crotch while trying to drag you into the bathroom of a local watering hole (while sober). Or sending nude texts while trying to get you to come over. Both have happened multiple times with different women. Because some of us are catch and release due to our situations, the metric is slightly different but the intention of a woman can be pretty obvious.

I have a theory that small amounts of Est may have social proofing qualities. As copulins are to sexual popularity, small amounts of est are to comfort/social popularity with women. Put another way: have sex with a woman, end up with copulins on your skin. Hug a woman, end up with small amounts of est. And here’s the thing: that would happen during sex too; you get slathered in whatever is there and not just copulins. It may well indicate that you are around women in social settings and they are comfortable enough with you to hug you, and this is a positive signal.

While I would not go out of my way to wear blends with a high concentration of est, I wear evolve (sorry for derail) on the basis that SteveO has stated how little there is in there. I’ve worn it every single time bar 2-3 that I’ve had sex in the last couple of years including on dates with the same women. While it’s always stacked with other things, it has in no way, shape or form led to any friendzoning- quite the opposite.

In my experience it makes a phenomenal 'steering' pheromone that is an exceptional buffer for higher doses of androstenone, even at minute doses. I also agree that their may be a 'social proof' factor.

I'm sorry guys, I'm guilty of derailing this thread as well but this isn't necessarily the place to continue this discussion.