(12-10-2011 3:01 PM)dbot Wrote:  Aren't there still 2/5 molecules remaining to be revealed from the last blind test?

Ah, good point dbot..

Molecule E: 5-pregnen-3b-ol-20-one [K]+ sulfate
Molecule F: DHEAS

First round was sort of a trial run. The new project will be a lot more exhaustive in scale: trying new groups of potential pheromone compounds.

For the record, here are the names of the compounds in advance. It may be more interesting know the list of possibilities, and try to guess which one it is

(5α)-ANDROSTEN-3-(CH3)
16, (5α)-ANDROSTENE
5α-ANDROSTANE

5-ANDROSTEN-3β, 19-DIOL-17-ONE (19-HYDROXY-DHEA)
5-ANDROSTEN-3β-OL (17-DESOXY DHEA)
5-ANDROSTEN-3β-OL-17β-CARBOXYLIC ACID(17B-CARBOXYLATE DHEA)


5-ANDROSTEN-3β-OL-17-ONE ETHYLENEKETAL
5α-ANDROSTAN-17β-OL-3-ONE DIMETHYL KETAL
5α-ANDROSTAN-3, 17-DIONE 3-DIMETHYL KETAL

5, 16-ANDROSTADIEN-16,17-EPOXY-3β-OL

16, (5α)-PREGNEN-3β-OL-20-ONE
20, (5β)-PREGNEN-3α-OL

5α-PREGNAN-3β-OL

4-PREGNEN-3-ONE-20β-CARBOXALDEHYDE

1, 3, 5(10)-ESTRATRIEN-3-OL (ESTRATRIENOL)
1, 3, 5(10)-ESTRATRIEN-16,17-EPOXY-3-OL (EPOXYESTRATRIENOL)

Some of these may be disqualified before the test, and others may be added.

Goodnight Guys… It’s bedtime for bonzo …

Chris @ Alpha

Unfortunately, I will leave my "spot", because if the package gets stopped by the customs in my country, that would be a nightmare, with 35 unknown chimical products ! . They do more controls since a few months. I don't know why. They even annoyed me for my favorite toothpaste that I order from the US !

That's a pity, cause the idea is very fun and exciting.

It would have been nice if Chris discussed this with us before deciding to run another blind molecule test. Both of us would have been all for doing another round of blind testing, but after the difficulties we had in getting through the first one and being able to finalize reports about common observations and pheromonal properties, we would have liked to see FEWER molecules involved in any future rounds and seen them run on a smaller scale that was a little more managable.

Instead, it appears that Chris has decided to go much bigger, with 3 times the number of molecules and god knows how many testers.

The only reason that the last round was of any success at all was due to dbot's hard efforts in going through each of the reviews and writing summaries. And, how he found the time to do it, I don't have a clue.

With that said, we want it to be understood that this project was not put together by PheroTruth, and the forum will not be involved in administering it, attempting to gather and summarize testing reports and observations, or the pheromonal properties of molecules involved.

And, any testing will not be administered the same way the first one was, with every tester having their own private forums for reporting and nobody having access to anyone elses forum. It took a full day to configure the required private forums, usergroups and permission settings that were needed for the first round, and that was with only 6 testers, god knows how long it might take with what Chris has in mind now.

The success of failure of the project will fall entirely upon the members involved and Chris.

(12-10-2011 3:01 PM)dbot Wrote:  Aren't there still 2/5 molecules remaining to be revealed from the last blind test?

Yes there are. Several testers never reported on them, even after being asked to a couple of times, and there weren't enough reports to summarize effects.

And, the one's that were summarized and revealed can be credited entirely to you.

Ok so after speaking with Chris today, the forum will be involved in this round of Blind Testing, but with several adjustments made to try to provide the best chance for success.

The changes we anticipate are to substantially reduce the number of molecules each participant will be testing and run several rounds instead of one massive round. This is in the hopes that if participants only have 3 or 4 molecules to test and report on, they will actually do that testing and reporting, instead of either not reporting at all or giving up after a single report, as some seemed to do in the first round.

Secondly, and to make it easier to set up and organize, the number of testers will be limited to at most 10, instead of an everyone can join in free-for-all. Even at 10 it will take a lot of time and effort to get everything configured and the molecules sent out to participants, but it is managable, and should allow for enough testers for us to get enough reports back to actually determine common observations and effects noticed by testers.

The molecule testing rounds will be done in stages, so that it doesn't become so overwheming that it becomes impossible to sort through everything and provide summaries of molecule effects and observations made.

Those testers that test and review all molecules they received will have first opportunity for continued involvement in future rounds and testing programs. Those that do not will be the last in line.

We want this to be sucessful but also light and fun, so there will be no pressure in trying to get you to test and report on any the molecules once you receive them, but if you don't fully intend to do so and contribute to the programs success, please don't ask to participate just because you can.

Testers will have their own private forums for reporting and no other testers will be able to see inside the other testers forums, or know who else in involved in the testing. But, this time we will ask testers to help out a little by setting up the threads in their forums themselves for reporting on each molecule. Not much work for each tester to create 3 or 4 threads, but quite a bit for us to have to create 30 or 40.

we would like the participants to test and report on the molecules as quickly as possible, so that within a month or so we can start putting together and releasing molecule summaries, instead of it dragging out for months like the first round did.

We will probably ask participants to test each molecule in sequence and set a time limit for getting their reviews in, so that this time we can quickly start summarizing and releasing information to everyone. 7 to 10 days should be more than enough time for participants to test and report on a molecule, but we'd also like your feedback on whether this seems reasonable or not,

Ultimately the success or failure of being able to create summaries lies with the participants though. With 10 testers even if we have a 40% fallout ratio we should still be able to get a general idea of molecule effects, altough we would prefer a 100% reporting ratio we know that that is not realistic. The closer the better though.

PheroTruth is happy to be a part of Chris' testing program, but just wanted to try to insure the best chance for success before giving it forum endorsement.

I´m happy to see this project not beeing stuck ...

and i´m looking forward to some great testing !

please add some information this time on the concentration of the molecules so that we can eventually dillute the stuff to work with low dosages !

20 to 25mcg as a starting dosage was a bit high last time .. :dash3:

Pago

As a clinical researcher, I've got plenty of ideas about how to improve the success of this program. Seems like Chris isn't interested in hearing them, though, so good luck everyone!

I am also glad that it isn't derailed. We had several testers that were studious in their participation in the first round, but a couple that didn't seem to give a shit and just blew it off without explanation. They will NOT be participating in this or any future programs the forum is a part of.

15 or 20 molecules in this round of testing scared the crap out of me. It was hard enough with 6 the first time, at 3 times that I saw a nightmare in the works.

Anyway, while I didn't really see the first round as more of a test and was disappointed that it didn't turn out better, we did learn a few lessons that I think can contribute to insuring this round is a success.

Now if we can just get the molecule identification program back on track!

(12-11-2011 8:29 PM)dbot Wrote:  As a clinical researcher, I've got plenty of ideas about how to improve the success of this program. Seems like Chris isn't interested in hearing them, though, so good luck everyone!

In giving credit where credit is due, the only reason the first round was at all successful was due to your efforts and hard work.

Even if Chris isn't interested in hearing your ideas if you're willing to share them with me I am!

And even though we've had our differences in the past, as far as I'm concerned it is just that, the past!

If you'd like to participate in this testing, I know that you have much to bring tom the table and I am sure we could come up with a level of particpation that would work for all.

Quote:As a clinical researcher, I've got plenty of ideas about how to improve the success of this program. Seems like Chris isn't interested in hearing them, though, so good luck everyone!

That's not true dbot.. A lot of your suggestions are very good. The instantaneous gentleman is in the works as soon as I manage to purify the 7-keto from the cellulose and other filler.. Also 5,16-dienol is on the way.

Sorry if it seemed like I wasn't hearing you. I know you exhausted yourself with the last blind test, and everyone really appreciates all the work you put in. It has to be a group effort though, no one person here should bear the responsibility of the other participants. I completely understand if u don't want to take part in this one, however we will miss your stellar clarity of thought, writing abilities, and organization.

Quote:20 to 25mcg as a starting dosage was a bit high last time

I would have to agree on this pago.. good point.. I will make the new testers in a solution of Alcohol and DPG, and make them all for 10? mcg / drop.

I'm going to tie up the loose ends on the last blind molecule test.. Thanks dbot for reminding me..