So there are a lot of premixed products which supposedly have different mones types with different ratios. I made this table just to compare.



Questions:

1-) Doesn't mixing premixed formulas will result in same mix ultimately?
2-) Isn't mixing premixed formulas with same mone molecules going to create overdose effect?
3-) Even if someone finds perfect mixture that has consistent results, considering diffusion to air, what makes sure that proper amount of each mones in the mix will reach the target?
4-) I see some products from trusted sellers claim to create complex reactions from target such as getting out of friend zone. I see this as a marketing move which makes seller and mone industry less credible especially using same mone molecules. What do you think?

Don't get me wrong. I am not bashing mones at all. I want them work but I also want to cut bullshit. Also a lot of reviews are funny as reviewers claims getting a hit when somebody just glances them therefore it becomes more harder to filter what really works.

#3 + #4 = I think this gets to the heart of people's skepticism about these products. First you have to believe that that these products have a particular effect on others or the person wearing them. Second you have to believe that those particular chemicals can be effective when aerosolized. Finally, you have to believe that all of these "hits" can't be explained by Placebo (which seems to explain everything when you take psychological priming into account, as you know exactly what these products do before you buy them).

There may also be some middle ground here, where some products have an effect, while others are just snake oil. These issues are even further complicated by the fact that these forums, it appears, are supported by the sale of these products, and some vendors are clearly labeled while others just appear to be regular members (only one that I know of that has been pointed out on multiple occasions by other members).

Having said all that, these are real experiences that users are having, so perhaps that is enough

(10-19-2014 7:58 AM)theLaw Wrote:  Having said all that, these are real experiences that users are having, so perhaps that is enough

1- User learns mones and their particular possible effects then spends money and put mones on himself
2- User approaches people more for science sake
3- User is comfortable, confident, assuming attraction, outcome independent
4- User gets good results eventually and attribute them to mones due to confirmation bias

Yes, even if it is a placebo, still works

(10-19-2014 9:59 AM)anon10500 Wrote:  1- User learns mones and their particular possible effects then spends money and put mones on himself
2- User approaches people more for science sake
3- User is comfortable, confident, assuming attraction, outcome independent
4- User gets good results eventually and attribute them to mones due to confirmation bias

Yes, even if it is a placebo, still works

So this just leaves a couple of questions :

1- Are these products worth $50 (or whatever amount) per bottle?

2- Why do some products get labeled as "duds" if placebo is in full effect (perhaps hive mentality) ?

(10-19-2014 10:15 AM)theLaw Wrote:  So this just leaves a couple of questions :

1- Are these products worth $50 (or whatever amount) per bottle?

2- Why do some products get labeled as "duds" if placebo is in full effect (perhaps hive mentality) ?

1- Well I guess it is up to user whether $50 worth or not.

2- There could be several reasons. Maybe mones are not synth correctly or used low amounts that are not fully effective. Maybe the mone ratio of mix is really important but that raises question of diffusion I asked my original post.

Getting answers to above questions from experienced users/manufacturers would be great.

(10-19-2014 11:39 AM)anon10500 Wrote:  1- Well I guess it is up to user whether $50 worth or not.

2- There could be several reasons. Maybe mones are not synth correctly or used low amounts that are not fully effective. Maybe the mone ratio of mix is really important but that raises question of diffusion I asked my original post.

Getting answers to above questions from experienced users/manufacturers would be great.

Agreed!

(10-19-2014 7:37 AM)anon10500 Wrote:  Questions:

1-) Doesn't mixing premixed formulas will result in same mix ultimately?
2-) Isn't mixing premixed formulas with same mone molecules going to create overdose effect?
3-) Even if someone finds perfect mixture that has consistent results, considering diffusion to air, what makes sure that proper amount of each mones in the mix will reach the target?
4-) I see some products from trusted sellers claim to create complex reactions from target such as getting out of friend zone. I see this as a marketing move which makes seller and mone industry less credible especially using same mone molecules. What do you think?

Don't get me wrong. I am not bashing mones at all. I want them work but I also want to cut bullshit. Also a lot of reviews are funny as reviewers claims getting a hit when somebody just glances them therefore it becomes more harder to filter what really works.

1-) Mixing premixed formulas creates a *new* mix.
2-) It will change the ratio of that molecule, that doesn't mean it's an overdose.
3-) Different molecules have different weights and different fixatives can also weigh things down, it isn't a guessing game. It's biology and chemistry. I'm not an expert in the field, but some here can give a more thorough answer.
4-) Of course it's marketing. That's the point when you're selling a product. But bear in mind some of these products were created by the testers of this community. Some have been years in the making. We get to test a lot of things before they are commercially available and some *are* duds and don't make it past testing stages. It's a very rigorous and tedious process behind the scenes.

You're right to be skeptical, as we all were once. There can be placebo effects, that's the first thing to consider while testing. You have to weed out all the "it could have been this" scenarios until you can't deny that something is actually happening that wouldn't without the mones. You have to know yourself, Truly. What I do from time to time is grab a product at random without looking and see if I can tell what it is by the results of my day. Sometimes I don't guess correctly, some products bring similar effects even though they have different molecules. Sometimes it's blatantly obvious to me what product I'm wearing. It takes time.

There's plenty of info around here about the science of it all. You can learn how it works, why it works, but you'll still not *know* without plenty of personal investigation and testing. All else is ignorance. Nobody ever seems to doubt this discussion when it's about insects and pheromones. Human pheromones work the same way, it's only our ignorant thoughts that can sometimes get in the way of our instincts. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes not. She's not going to run up to you and start mating because you're wearing pheromones, but she may have to reason with herself about why she should or shouldn't. We've been manipulated with social structures that we call our nature, yet it actually goes *against* what our own nature is telling us. We still have free will even while under the influence, just like when we consume alcohol, we still make our own choices. But the influence is not unnoticed.

You're also right about people claiming hits from getting looks that could easily have happened without pheromones. It happens a lot and does nothing to advance the technology. Take those reports with a grain of salt. At the same time certain molecules *will* make people look at you more. It's good to test things on people you know well so you can see the blatant changes in your interactions with them. They may also point out differences with you that you weren't aware of.

Anyway, I hope some of my ramblings make sense.

(10-19-2014 1:19 PM)shakes Wrote:  1-) Mixing premixed formulas creates a *new* mix.
2-) It will change the ratio of that molecule, that doesn't mean it's an overdose.
3-) Different molecules have different weights and different fixatives can also weigh things down, it isn't a guessing game. It's biology and chemistry. I'm not an expert in the field, but some here can give a more thorough answer.
4-) Of course it's marketing. That's the point when you're selling a product. But bear in mind some of these products were created by the testers of this community. Some have been years in the making. We get to test a lot of things before they are commercially available and some *are* duds and don't make it past testing stages. It's a very rigorous and tedious process behind the scenes.

You're right to be skeptical, as we all were once. There can be placebo effects, that's the first thing to consider while testing. You have to weed out all the "it could have been this" scenarios until you can't deny that something is actually happening that wouldn't without the mones. You have to know yourself, Truly. What I do from time to time is grab a product at random without looking and see if I can tell what it is by the results of my day. Sometimes I don't guess correctly, some products bring similar effects even though they have different molecules. Sometimes it's blatantly obvious to me what product I'm wearing. It takes time.

There's plenty of info around here about the science of it all. You can learn how it works, why it works, but you'll still not *know* without plenty of personal investigation and testing. All else is ignorance. Nobody ever seems to doubt this discussion when it's about insects and pheromones. Human pheromones work the same way, it's only our ignorant thoughts that can sometimes get in the way of our instincts. Sometimes it's a good thing, sometimes not. She's not going to run up to you and start mating because you're wearing pheromones, but she may have to reason with herself about why she should or shouldn't. We've been manipulated with social structures that we call our nature, yet it actually goes *against* what our own nature is telling us. We still have free will even while under the influence, just like when we consume alcohol, we still make our own choices. But the influence is not unnoticed.

You're also right about people claiming hits from getting looks that could easily have happened without pheromones. It happens a lot and does nothing to advance the technology. Take those reports with a grain of salt. At the same time certain molecules *will* make people look at you more. It's good to test things on people you know well so you can see the blatant changes in your interactions with them. They may also point out differences with you that you weren't aware of.

Anyway, I hope some of my ramblings make sense.

Hey Shakes,

Thanks for the info!

There were a couple of things in your statement that I would like to address:

First, with regards to testing- there are two type of testing in science : Peer-Reviewed Controlled Studies and Anecdotal Testing. The scientific community uses the peer-review process so that any company cannot just "test" a product and claim the results as proof that their products actually work. An example would be if a cigarette manufacturer claimed that their product did not cause cancer based on results of their own private test. We would obviously see this as a conflict of interest. Unfortunately, anything short of Peer-Reviewed studies will not provide unbiased evidence of a products effectiveness.

Second, with regards to your own method of grabbing a bottle of a random product and testing it blindly, this can easily be explained away as Placebo, as you have already been primed by the smell of the chemical. Allow me to demonstrate:

You buy Product X with the explanation of what specific effects you should achieve from that particular chemical mix. You then smell the product as you apply it and use it throughout the day, creating an association between the behavior that you witness and the actual scent of the chemicals (not cover scent-just mones). Now, every time that you use that product, you subconsciously look for that same behavior that your brain has come to expect from that particular chemical. "I can smell the cops in this"-sound familiar?

You can also imagine how this effects the "chain of custody" in terms of "blind" testing of particular molecules.

So to sum it up, this testing process may be the only way of vetting products for this particular industry until there are more Peer-Reviewed Trials, which is why these products must be listed as "possible placebo" until we have more evidence. Until then, we can just have fun with them!

thelaw, you keep dwelling on this placebo idea, which is a justifiable thought. Have you really tried some of these products? can not remember but if not give it a go. I am the biggest skeptic, and do not just jump to buy items from companies of next to bizarre claims. Most of these legit 'mone companies do not promise these bizarre results though. These companies advertise these products giving descriptions of realistic expectations(for the most part).

Anywho, not exactly concrete but here is something you can read on the anecdotal side:

http://www.bioone.org/doi/abs/10.1651/C-2580.1

The thing is, 'mones are kind of a "myth" in the eyes of most researchers or field professionals. Not only that but it is difficult to test the physiological responses of these certain artificial and natural pheromones.

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ado...ne.0062499

Long read(should sum this placebo doubt up for you, I hope ):
http://www.athenainstitute.com/1013study.pdf

Summary of above:
http://www.athenainstitute.com/scienceli...ality.html

I don't disagree with anything you've said, you're entitled to your opinions and beliefs. My own personal (experiential) investigation has been my proof. I don't have yours. Nobody else does either. So yes, until then we can just have fun.

Have you tried anything other than Androtics?