(10-21-2014 3:20 AM)anon10500 Wrote:  Ok let's assume 2X mgc Androstenone is overdose amount. So if I mix 2 products with X mgc none, this will turn into 2X mgc (overdose amount), right?

One cannot assume that simply because overdose amount varies from person to person based on their (variable) body chemistry. Classic example is when I could wear 2 drops DP + 4 drops A4A + 1 spray Wolf when I was pudgy. Now that I'm fitter and more muscular, that is a serious overdose, because my body produces more testosterone naturally.

So the only way to find out how many mcg none would be overdose for an individual would be to test.

Also, assuming per your example that 2X mcg is overdose, one cannot definitively say that since Product A contains 0.5X mcg and Product B 1.5X mcg none that it will automatically be overdose. This is because Product B may contain other ingredients that buffer none very well, thereby requiring maybe 2.5X or more none to cause overdose.

(10-21-2014 3:20 AM)anon10500 Wrote:  Are you trying to say 'mones turns into something else on your body due to your body chemistry?
...

He's referring to Androstadienone converting to none over time due to bacteria on skin.

I think the point that anon10500 was trying to discuss here is:

let's say your sweetspot for product A is 1 spray and that you OD on that product at 2 sprays. Same for a product B.
Would a mix of 1 spray of each product provoke also a OD.

Cheers
M.

(10-21-2014 2:55 AM)kimosabe Wrote:  Placebo? Overdose? Same or new mix? You decide.

I also think this stuff works. Hell, I started research 'mones after a female complaining getting aroused at work due to someone wearing 'mone product. It's just I cannot believe there are too many products with similar chemicals offering various reactions from target. I really want to understand what works and how it works. Another big question is diffusion in air, it does not make sense that you can vap certain amount of chemicals to the target, for example, lets assume a product has X mgc Androstenone and X mgc Alpha Androstenol, ideally same amount of both should reach target but maybe due to air movement at that moment only Alpha Androstenol reaches the target giving out beta signals.

(10-21-2014 11:41 AM)anon10500 Wrote:  I also think this stuff works. Hell, I started research 'mones after a female complaining getting aroused at work due to someone wearing 'mone product. It's just I cannot believe there are too many products with similar chemicals offering various reactions from target. I really want to understand what works and how it works. Another big question is diffusion in air, it does not make sense that you can vap certain amount of chemicals to the target, for example, lets assume a product has X mgc Androstenone and X mgc Alpha Androstenol, ideally same amount of both should reach target but maybe due to air movement at that moment only Alpha Androstenol reaches the target giving out beta signals.

These are great questions!

I think that the lack of precision with the testing of these molecules is ultimately leaving a revolutionary technology stuck in the scientific dark ages.

A great example would be Bad Wolf. Here is a product by a well-respected vendor with a great deal of hype that seemingly turned out to be a dud (feel free to correct me on this if I am misinformed). Strange

Just think what would be possible if we knew exactly each molecules' effects at different variables (age, ethnicity, distance, etc) instead of the "do your homework" response people usually give on the forums. Science is the history of standing on the shoulders of giants, not every man for himself.

Until then just test test test!!!

(10-21-2014 12:48 PM)theLaw Wrote:  These are great questions!

I think that the lack of precision with the testing of these molecules is ultimately leaving a revolutionary technology stuck in the scientific dark ages.

A great example would be Bad Wolf. Here is a product by a well-respected vendor with a great deal of hype that seemingly turned out to be a dud (feel free to correct me on this if I am misinformed). Strange

Just think what would be possible if we knew exactly each molecules' effects at different variables (age, ethnicity, distance, etc) instead of the "do your homework" response people usually give on the forums. Science is the history of standing on the shoulders of giants, not every man for himself.

Until then just test test test!!!

Yeah mate, there is always the next big thing, first we need to weed out shit. Just think what would happen if snake oil no 'mone products were discussed in the forum.

For testing, I suggest more statistical approach in order to avoid trying every combination & variable. This can dramatically reduce testing time (in cost of precision). Google Taguchi matrix, maybe someday I can put simplified guide, but here's I have customs problem for now...

(10-21-2014 7:33 AM)moe Wrote:  I think the point that anon10500 was trying to discuss here is:

let's say your sweetspot for product A is 1 spray and that you OD on that product at 2 sprays. Same for a product B.
Would a mix of 1 spray of each product provoke also a OD.

Cheers
M.

IF products A and B both do not contain any buffers for the main mone, then it may possibly cause OD.

Again, one cannot say for sure because of the other ingredients that go to make up each product. Too many variables.

(10-21-2014 12:48 PM)theLaw Wrote:  ...
A great example would be Bad Wolf. Here is a product by a well-respected vendor with a great deal of hype that seemingly turned out to be a dud (feel free to correct me on this if I am misinformed). Strange

...

I don't know if I'd call Bad Wolf a dud. There are also many reports here from users who have used Bad Wolf to good effect. Perhaps calling it a mone product for more advanced action-taker users may be more appropriate.

(10-21-2014 11:41 AM)anon10500 Wrote:  I also think this stuff works. Hell, I started research 'mones after a female complaining getting aroused at work due to someone wearing 'mone product. It's just I cannot believe there are too many products with similar chemicals offering various reactions from target. I really want to understand what works and how it works. Another big question is diffusion in air, it does not make sense that you can vap certain amount of chemicals to the target, for example, lets assume a product has X mgc Androstenone and X mgc Alpha Androstenol, ideally same amount of both should reach target but maybe due to air movement at that moment only Alpha Androstenol reaches the target giving out beta signals.

Agreed, that's why I try to have my app points as close as possible to one another. The idea is to get the various mone signatures to intermix while diffusing.

Interesting story here, a couple of months ago, I was waiting for a cab. There was a woman standing a short distance away from me, upwind. Obviously she didn't catch a scent of whatever I was wearing that day (can't remember what mones I wore.)

Then the wind shifted, and now she was downwind from me. From my peripheral vision, I saw her snap her head in my direction and she stared hard for a good few seconds.

Same thing happened with a dog when I wore Wolf, except that the dog came over and lay down on the ground by my feet. Its owner was bewildered.

(10-21-2014 5:30 PM)kimosabe Wrote:  IF products A and B both do not contain any buffers for the main mone, then it may possibly cause OD.

Again, one cannot say for sure because of the other ingredients that go to make up each product. Too many variables.

(10-21-2014 12:48 PM)theLaw Wrote:  ...
A great example would be Bad Wolf. Here is a product by a well-respected vendor with a great deal of hype that seemingly turned out to be a dud (feel free to correct me on this if I am misinformed). Strange

...

I don't know if I'd call Bad Wolf a dud. There are also many reports here from users who have used Bad Wolf to good effect. Perhaps calling it a mone product for more advanced action-taker users may be more appropriate.

You may be right about it being an advanced product, but it may also pull it even further down the rabbit hole of Placebo. The idea that you now need to use it in a certain way to see effects, or "learn" the product sounds very suspect.

Again, the scientific gray area makes this problematic, so it could be legit or just wishful thinking

Here's some quotes taken off of LAL's Bad Wolf Page:

Garry, of LAL, about Bad Wolf Wrote:Garry sat back from his computer. “Fuck, fuck fuck.”

I glance towards him, “What?”

He rubs his eyes and drops his forehead on the desk so hard makes the monitors shake and boxes of numbered vials fall over. “I wish I could just take these guys and shake the niceness out of them. Look nice and be bad works better than just being nice. There are so many guys out there that don’t realize that when they are being nice, they are saying they don’t want sex, they just want to be used. Women think they are weasels and they don't even know it.

On one hand I have guys that look so mean they scare women and then I have guys so nice that women stomp all over them and kick them to the curb. Some of them are even the same guy and he wonders why he doesn't get anywhere with women”
“Then tell them that.” I offered.

He looked at me like I had brain damage. He often times looks at me like that, I just don't get things the way he does.

“You know, I can make pheromones that coddle them and gives them hope, or I can make pheromones that will get them where they want to be, but they are afraid of the ones that will get the job done, they think they are overdosing when they are actually at the point of making something happen, then they run away, lower their dosage, add more socials to beta down, or stop using completely. They are so afraid of confrontation, they don’t understand that mastery of women and unlimited sex is on the other side of that uneasy encounter.”

Do I sell them what they want, or do I make what they need to have a bigger and better life?”

I thought about that for a minute, “I guess it depends if you just want to make money or you want to change lives and I know what you want to do or you wouldn't spend so much time on the computer answering all these guy's questions when you could make me or someone else do it.”

He leaned back in his chair and looked at the ceiling, “Guys on the forum don’t even get that Wolf is sexual, they think it puts them in the friend zone, when they are the ones putting themselves in the friend zone. I should make a Bad Wolf, I mean really BAD!”

It seemed like a perfectly good plan to me and I said so.

Garry, “Yeah, but If I make it then it would have to be very alpha and very sexual, have self effects. It would have to be even more potent than anything I have already made so that the guys who had the courage to use it would get results fast before they give up.

What am I thinking? They will just use less and less or add so other products to beta it down until they are comfortable and back to making no progress, and then they will say it does not work or something.”

So far I had been trying to work while talking, but finally had to turn my full attention because Garry is just not like this. “What is wrong with you today? You are the most optimistic guy that I know.”

Garry rubbed his eyes again, “Sixteen hours of customer service with lost guys that just need to follow through with a few pointers and they can be kings. You are right, I'm going to make Bad Wolf. It won’t have anything to do with Wolf though, it will have to be completely different, completely life changing even if it only changes the course of a few men’s lives it will be worth it. I'm going to the lab”

And that is how Bad Wolf was born. Bad Wolf was created to change your life. It has been created with all the goals that Garry had for you, but you have to want those things for you as well.

And then, Garry, of LAL, about Bad Wolf also Wrote:Bad Wolf's alpha aggressive is going to hit first, so you are going to have to have the nuts to hang in there until the sexual has the chance to get you into real trouble. This is backwards to the way many pheromone formulas work as most pheromone formulas are made for low level beta males with lots of socials, or they are just all alpha androstenone. This brings up a good point, most people think that the pheromones we have listed in our unmixed section is all we have, so we must just be juggling them around. That is far from the truth. Liquid Alchemy Labs uses many different pheromones, plant extracts, pheromone like substances or putatives. Garry never stops searching for more and better pheromones and many of them he does not sell individually as he does not want his competitors to know about them.

Bad Wolf is a bit twisted in its delivery. Mostly because we want your life to be interesting. You are paying for a different reaction with women and people in general. You want a different life and we are trying to give that new experience to you. I mean in the end you only get your experiences, so you better make them good ones. I mean the goal is not to be more boring than your friends. Bad Wolf does not accept boring!

What I understand from the above is that Bad Wolf is a product that works BACKWARDS.

Most mone products work like this:
1. Wearer appears on the scene
2. Mones diffuse and hit others
3. Mones create attraction, pull and opens the door to interaction
4. Wearer moves in, gets sociable, connects & escalates
5. Mones work their magic, solidifying attraction & connection
6.

What I understand from the description above is that for Bad Wolf:
1. Wearer appears on the scene
2. Wearer opens his own doors to interaction as an assertive alpha, moves in, gets sociable
3. Bad Wolf diffuses, creates congruent attraction (wearer: assertive alpha, mone:assertive alpha), helps wearer to SOLIDLY connect & escalate FAST AND HARD
4.

The way I understand it, Bad Wolf would be a fantastic day/night-game mone. Would experienced Bad Wolf users please chime in on this? Thanks.

(10-21-2014 3:20 AM)anon10500 Wrote:  Are you trying to say 'mones turns into something else on your body due to your body chemistry?

I think it is more likely related to target's chemistry if they work.
Sure you body chemistry can affect significantly, maybe Androstenone makes you behave more attractive.

Also we cannot simply categorize people like asian or not since even asians may have characteristic genes from other races.

My theory is that a person's body chemistry is unique. It is composed of chemicals which, when the chemicals in pheromones are added, it produces a unique chemical mix which one might consider as his "signature." If everyone's body chem is the same, then all the mones should work as claimed all across the board. It is not only related to the target's chemistry, but to the wearer's too, which might explain why some people are averse to Androstadienone , while some can use it in high doses comfortably. Furthermore, using Androstadienone as an example, if a guy has the tendency to sweat a lot, Androstadienone converts to Androstenone faster on his skin (again this is just a theory that I gathered from an email from Garry a few years ago). Also, if he has dry skin, mones would be easily absorbed and there is less diffusion (quoting from some previous posts). I am not a scientist so these are just my layman's theories.

My reference to "asian" is intended as an example as being an asian in asia, this race is what I am exposed to majority of the time. I agree with you though. It's just that it is often mentioned in forums that certain races react differently to mones i.e.: asian girls are averse to androstenone, afro-americans and latinas love Androstenone, etc. I think that this is not entirely accurate as I have had great results with asians while wearing a combo of Evolve + Taboo, or Lucky 7. I also got negative results while wearing Imprint or Cohesion, even though if you go by the theory, reactions should be positive.