Agreed Mark. Our answers only lead to more questions anyway. Experientiality is Golden!!

(10-23-2014 3:51 PM)mark-in-dallas Wrote:  Okay, does any of this placebo vs reality matter to any of us who believe they are working for us? Let the doubters doubt and continue trying to convince themselves one way or another. As for me, I'll continue buying and using products that I've achieved positive effects from, regardless of the reason for the effects. There's many things in life that can't be proven and that we'll never really understand, but that makes them no less real.

“For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” --- Stuart Chase

(10-23-2014 3:51 PM)mark-in-dallas Wrote:  Okay, does any of this placebo vs reality matter to any of us who believe they are working for us? Let the doubters doubt and continue trying to convince themselves one way or another. As for me, I'll continue buying and using products that I've achieved positive effects from, regardless of the reason for the effects. There's many things in life that can't be proven and that we'll never really understand, but that makes them no less real.

Agreed.

Yes, continuing to buy a product because of its perceived effects is all well and good, as long as we understand that Placebo is a real possibility until we have further scientific evidence.

I think that pushing for more evidence is always the best path for the evolution of any science.

As for doubters, having posts where "hits" (ie-proof that a product is working) include people looking at you a certain way from across the room (a common line in many posts), does need its fair share of doubters to balance the debate, as these claims seem dubious or irrelevant at best. I am personally always more interested in the "extreme" type hits where placebo seems a bit less likely.

Thanks Mark for weighing in on this-much appreciated!

(10-23-2014 4:28 PM)MMM Wrote:  “For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible.” --- Stuart Chase

Very true .... I think the law made some very good and very valid points.
will we answer them? Probably not here..this is a forum for enthusiests/hobbiest.
we are already biased but so what. We do what we do.

I have had many experiences with mones that I do not believe that it is just placebo. "Placebo" is only good for a few days at best. Consistent experiences over years show that the effects are in the realm of reality. Otherwise, I would not re-purchase mones again...and again....and again... Dang! these mones are draining my wallet.

Nice topic OP has brought out.

What about the self-effects? I more often than not I've felt the effects of some products, not something about "I'm more uplift" or "I feel sexy" vagueness. I can relate anxiety or "can't be sit down" using Taboo first time, I've been sometimes deeply struck with Cohesion or I've noticed lately more spontaneous openness from my side using Core (that one a more subtle thing).

An interesting experience was when I tested New Pheromone Additive going to sleep and I had a wet dream when I woke up at morning. Such a thing never happened to me before since I was a teen very many years ago.

When I doubt about the real influence I recall these experiences on myself and I have to think that they can affect people around, however I still have to work more on this and pay attention and take advantage. As many people says there are tools that needs some skills just as everything else that makes you more noticeable and likeable/desirable like a nice suit.

Still I can admit some suggestion or delusion when considering situations with people, after all the reality we experience is what we think about it.

If I may give my input...

I believe its more Pheromone than Placebo. There were instances where I wouldn't even be aware Im on the mones and things happen out of the ordinary.

Take for example, I wore Overdose by LAL for a very long time if Im not mistaken. I had it on me nearly everyday. 1 pea size to one full pump dosage. I received more respect from work. My friends would never give me any shit, they'd tease amongst each other but not me. Before that, I would have already be involved in a lot of the jokes. My meals were paid for, drinks paid for, fees paid for by my friends. I didnt even have to ask. We were out strollin around and I saw a shirt that I happened to really like, I didnt bother thinking of buying it but suddenly my friend took it and bought it along with his other stuff and gave it to me. These things RARELY happened to me before I was Overdose. Funny part is I only realized it couldve been more than likely from mones the next day. I dont think about mones all the time when Im out, I just be myself and live as I normally do. So it can't be placebo at all.

Now that Im not Overdose ( need to reorder for use as a daily ), I dont get my drinks or meals paid for, at least not as often. I do take some shit more often than before I was on overdose but thats something I can handle anyway.

Placebo having a greater affect than the product? Not so much but still a very real possibility.

I believe that when mones are used correctly, its definitely a game changer towards your life.

Should do an expirement, one with people who cant smell them of course.