(01-23-2017 3:39 PM)Muad'Dib Wrote:  You could also just buy some other brands and mix up your own batch I presume, and get the same, if not similar results? What's the most you should go on applying this daily? I see a number of amounts by various people here. Will this make your hair fall out? I would totally miss my long flowing haaaaaaaairrrrrrrr...

Go back and read the links provided in this thread for full detailed info on dose. This is very different than mones......much more precise dosing needed with other variables in play.

You can buy these chemicals from other vendors, but as you'll see on the Ray Peat forum, Idealabs (Haidut) has a product purity nearly unparalleled in the market. Not trying to sound like a shill for this guy, but he uses DMSO to apply the chemicals trans-dermally completely bypassing the liver while getting much higher concentrations into the tissue (studies suggest that using DMSO can increase it to 10x the dose). I have not seen this offered by any other vendor.

Again, this is not a "weekend warrior" type of protocol. Please inform yourself properly before using any of these substances/protocols.

But to your point, you could buy these chemicals on Amazon and apply them using something like MCT oil and they will be absorbed......it might take a while, but nearly all of it will eventually be absorbed.

Also, will not make your hair fall out. In fact, Danny Roddy, one of the most vocal Ray Peat proponents, used Peat's methods to regrow his hair :

https://www.youtube.com/user/dannyroddy (check out video on the association between T and hair loss)

Cheers!

(01-23-2017 3:59 PM)theLaw Wrote:  Go back and read the links provided in this thread for full detailed info on dose. This is very different than mones......much more precise dosing needed with other variables in play.

You can buy these chemicals from other vendors, but as you'll see on the Ray Peat forum, Idealabs (Haidut) has a product purity nearly unparalleled in the market. Not trying to sound like a shill for this guy, but he uses DMSO to apply the chemicals trans-dermally completely bypassing the liver while getting much higher concentrations into the tissue (studies suggest that using DMSO can increase it to 10x the dose). I have not seen this offered by any other vendor.

Again, this is not a "weekend warrior" type of protocol. Please inform yourself properly before using any of these substances/protocols.

But to your point, you could buy these chemicals on Amazon and apply them using something like MCT oil and they will be absorbed......it might take a while, but nearly all of it will eventually be absorbed.

Also, will not make your hair fall out. In fact, Danny Roddy, one of the most vocal Ray Peat proponents, used Peat's methods to regrow his hair :

https://www.youtube.com/user/dannyroddy (check out video on the association between T and hair loss)

Cheers!

Thanks!

(01-22-2017 2:04 PM)theLaw Wrote:  Yes - the amount needed for the T protocol from that thread is much more than in Estroban, but you can try the Pansterone alone first if you like, and then add the K when you want.

https://raypeatforum.com/community/threa...ment.9169/

You'll need 4+ drops per application.

Keep in mind that Haidut sups are expensive, but the quality is unreal......very potent. Be sure to test in area other than testicles first. Some people have a bad initial reaction to DMSO, but that normally goes away pretty quickly. First time I used the Vitamin K sup on my arm, I had a burn mark for a week.......too many drops at once.

Estroban is a solid sup, but it usually takes something more powerful to lower estrogen in males with T issues. With the protocol listed on the thread, you should notice a change in libido/erection quality with 1-3 (no more than 3) full applications spread throughout the day, but remember, Haidut's recommended dose is always on the high side so start slow.


Cheers!

Glad I asked!

So far, the temples, shoulders, stomach, penis and balls are the application points for Pansterone.

My first order will be Pansterone, Kuinone, TacoVit and Energin. You wouldn't by any chance have a link to HOW TO USE ALL THOSE IN ONE DAY, WOULD YOU?

Again, you are appreciated!

(01-23-2017 5:16 PM)MMM Wrote:  Glad I asked!

So far, the temples, shoulders, stomach, penis and balls are the application points for Pansterone.

My first order will be Pansterone, Kuinone, TacoVit and Energin. You wouldn't by any chance have a link to HOW TO USE ALL THOSE IN ONE DAY, WOULD YOU?

Again, you are appreciated!

Pansterone+Kuinone = the link I posted with application to the testicles.

Tocovit = I take orally, as it gets pretty greasy anywhere else.

Energin = I only take orally, as it's bright orange, so it will leave a stain on skin for 24hrs.

Taking them all the same day: you can just separate them by 6hrs, and you should be fine. Energin is best in the morning, so maybe Tokovit at night before bed.

Personally, I don't worry too much about the overlap unless I'm taking them all orally. Keep in mind that any product with DMSO goes right into the tissue without a pass through the liver.

Also, pay close attention to the suggested dose, and read the label carefully, as Haidut is constantly refining each mix, so sometimes a dose of 8 drops becomes 4 drops after some feedback from customers. Nothing in the Ray Peat world is user friendly yet.

One more thing, is anyone using this for bodybuilding purposes, and does anyone have anything to report on how quick your gains were, how much, better strength, etc.

(01-25-2017 3:01 AM)Muad'Dib Wrote:  One more thing, is anyone using this for bodybuilding purposes, and does anyone have anything to report on how quick your gains were, how much, better strength, etc.

I will be making my purchase next week; and I plan on applying my Pansterone and Kuinone in the morning about an hour before my morning workouts. If I note anything, I'll come back and post.