I always kind of wondered if one could figure out the actual chemical composition of the putatives with a good gas spectrometre.

One of my previous jobs had a really expensive one for R&D testing (stuff I didn't know about) - I had access to it for a period of time because it was helpful for a project I was working on.


It's really too bad I knew nothing about phero's at the time

(10-20-2009 4:52 PM)Wrlprchnx Wrote:  I always kind of wondered if one could figure out the actual chemical composition of the putatives with a good gas spectrometre.

One of my previous jobs had a really expensive one for R&D testing (stuff I didn't know about) - I had access to it for a period of time because it was helpful for a project I was working on.


It's really too bad I knew nothing about phero's at the time

Is there anyone here with access to those types of resources? I'd gladly procure samples of various putatives for analysis.

(10-20-2009 6:52 PM)Phya Wrote:  Is there anyone here with access to those types of resources? I'd gladly procure samples of various putatives for analysis.

I think it will be cheaper and simpler to just go down the list and test things out.

I talked to Mark about this and I'd like some feedback from those with access to this sub-forum.

First, let me be upfront that I'm not doing anything for purely altruistic reasons. MH tried to guilt trip me around that when I was working on the copulins and so I want to just take that card right off of the table. Any information gleaned from what I'm proposing below, I will turn into products for consumers to purchase (reasonably priced).

I have opened an account with the company that I hear is who AD gets most if not all of their steroids from. And though I have not purchased anything from them yet, I'm willing to provide test samples to forum members, possibly even free of charge (in amounts within reason) to figure out what works as a pheromone and how, and what doesn't.

I really don't give a flying flip what AD uses as their putatives and I'd like for us to break away from identifying with them so much. It is pretty obvious that there is no research going on over there, and it is my opinion that the P-system is a marketing gimick and way for them to protect their financial interests.

What is important is that we identify a nice large sample of things that we like and that we want to be able to purchase and use.

What I'm thinking of doing is making up a bunch of test samples and doing some double blind (though not controlled) investigation. I can code these and send them to Bella or Mark to distribute to our chosen testers. I would make these up with concentrations ranging from 2.5-15.0 mcg/spray for each one, and clearly label them with concentration and the test code. We could report on this restricted forum and try to figure out what they are.

I would be the only one who would know what these are to begin, but after a set amount of time and testing I would reveal what they are on this forum. Those that we like, that are really effective, I will make available for purchase for cheap. And unlike AD, we would be doing some real research with a purpose.

And depending on how the first tests went, we could expand and continue down the list.

If anyone wanted to donate some money to a central fund not run by me for purchasing the stocks for these runs we could do that by paypal. Because there won't be that many people testing these out (we want to keep to a small and experienced test group) the initial costs shouldn't be too high. Maybe one of the forum moderators would be interested in setting something like that up so that all the interest isn't in my hands.

One upside of this is I believe I'll be able to provide (once identified) products at about half the price that AD charges.

What do you think?

Diane

Lately, I've been questioning the "research" over there. The "researchers" consists of a few experienced users and just about every beginner that joins. I think you are right, it is a marketing ploy, considering history...

(10-20-2009 8:18 PM)Mtnjim Wrote:  Lately, I've been questioning the "research" over there. The "researchers" consists of a few experienced users and just about every beginner that joins. I think you are right, it is a marketing ploy, considering history...

You know people have been directly questioning MH about all the promises for the "reveals" and it always comes to the same excuses. Paraphrasing: "We are victims! Botnet Attacks! Enemies everywhere! Bankruptcy!" But there is never a straight answer, because there is none that would satisfy all the promises never kept.

Diane

(10-20-2009 8:22 PM)Diane999 Wrote:  Bankruptcy!"

I wouldn't be surprised.

Yeah, I was always excited when they promised this or that.......but actions speak louder than words and those promises seem to be empty..

Diane, your plan sounds great. Maybe we should set a standard procedure for all tests?

I think its a fantastic ideal Diane and very generous of you to commit your time to this. We all know time is worth more then money and we cant expect you to brunt the bill. I am sure people who are interested in these molecules and what they do would donate to a central fund for testing. It may start slow at first but it will pick up as we go along.

I know you mention you wish we would not identify with AD so much. I can understand that with testing these new molecules. You want a clean slate. However I dont think it could be avoided. People will try to describe the reactions and AD putatives with probably get mentioned for comparative reasons.


Right now only people who are members of this forum can see this section. I think a password protected section for members who are participating in the testing would be good and then once intial testing is over and Diane reveals what it is we can talk about the molecules in the open forum. While only members are permited in this section believe me they are not above sending in a decoy to see what we are up to. Not that it would matter but I just feel more comfort this way. I dont know how you all feel about this though.

Quote:Lately, I've been questioning the "research" over there. The "researchers" consists of a few experienced users and just about every beginner that joins. I think you are right, it is a marketing ploy, considering history...

Right now I agree, I dont think they have the funds to do much research and they are struggling to stay afloat which is why you see so much out of stock. Amy claims it takes time to make some of the molecules but they do not make anything except mixes that come from a recipe provided by MH. Its like making cake. Sure if you had to collect all the ingrediants it would take a lot longer. Ya got to milk the cow, collect the eggs and harvest some wheat but when you buy it in the box it only takes a hour . They buy there molecules from a chemical lab. It should not take months to restock. My guess its lack of funds for whatever reason that is keeping those shelves empty and leading to the poor decisions they have made. I am not including Steve is that statement, he is the only bright light coming from over there. I was with him when jasmin had her\ baby and he took over and let me tell you the place was a total mess. He saved it then from going under and if they let him he can do it again but they keep letting there egos get in the way.

One thing I do request though is that we dont hold off on telling people what the molecule is long. Maybe do a phase 1 blind then reveal oncve everyone reports in. I have been though the blind testing wringer for so long I dont look forward to that anymore.

Tisha

(10-21-2009 5:05 AM)Tisha Wrote:  I think its a fantastic ideal Diane and very generous of you to commit your time to this. We all know time is worth more then money and we cant expect you to brunt the bill. I am sure people who are interested in these molecules and what they do would donate to a central fund for testing. It may start slow at first but it will pick up as we go along.

I know you mention you wish we would not identify with AD so much. I can understand that with testing these new molecules. You want a clean slate. However I dont think it could be avoided. People will try to describe the reactions and AD putatives with probably get mentioned for comparative reasons.


Right now only people who are members of this forum can see this section. I think a password protected section for members who are participating in the testing would be good and then once intial testing is over and Diane reveals what it is we can talk about the molecules in the open forum. While only members are permited in this section believe me they are not above sending in a decoy to see what we are up to. Not that it would matter but I just feel more comfort this way. I dont know how you all feel about this though.

What terrific ideas, Tisha! I agree wholeheartedly.

I was thinking starting with 4 or 5 molecules and limiting the number of testers to 10. I know in formal studies more is better, but for our purposes, and because those ten would be experienced users, and to keep the costs manageable, to start 10 would be good. If we do 5 different dilutions of 5 different products, with 10 testers, that is 250 test misters.

Having a separate locked forum only for those directly involved would be ideal. We could let people on the rest of the forum know what we are doing. And maybe later we could have the forum moderators pass out a few unknowns once in a while and have "Name that Molecule" contests with prizes. That way everyone could participate in the excitement and feel included.

(10-21-2009 5:05 AM)Tisha Wrote:  Right now I agree, I dont think they have the funds to do much research and they are struggling to stay afloat which is why you see so much out of stock. Amy claims it takes time to make some of the molecules but they do not make anything except mixes that come from a recipe provided by MH. Its like making cake. Sure if you had to collect all the ingrediants it would take a lot longer. Ya got to milk the cow, collect the eggs and harvest some wheat but when you buy it in the box it only takes a hour . They buy there molecules from a chemical lab. It should not take months to restock. My guess its lack of funds for whatever reason that is keeping those shelves empty and leading to the poor decisions they have made. I am not including Steve is that statement, he is the only bright light coming from over there. I was with him when jasmin had her\ baby and he took over and let me tell you the place was a total mess. He saved it then from going under and if they let him he can do it again but they keep letting there egos get in the way.

(10-21-2009 5:05 AM)Tisha Wrote:  One thing I do request though is that we dont hold off on telling people what the molecule is long. Maybe do a phase 1 blind then reveal oncve everyone reports in. I have been though the blind testing wringer for so long I dont look forward to that anymore.

Tisha

I agree, I definitely don't want a long time taken on these tests, but we do want enough time for people to gauge the effects, say maybe three or four weeks, max. Taking years to name a molecule is just callousness and cruelty to people who have worked so diligently testing.

Diane

All great ideas! Isn't it amazing what can happen when intelligence and creativity are allowed and encouraged?

I agree that Diane should not bear the cost of supplies and shipping and I think there's a module that can be installed to process paypal payments or donations. I will look into it.