(10-21-2009 2:11 AM)Phya Wrote:  Yeah, I was always excited when they promised this or that.......but actions speak louder than words and those promises seem to be empty..

Diane, your plan sounds great. Maybe we should set a standard procedure for all tests?

I think the procedures we all worked out at PT would work fine... one spray on day one, two sprays on day two, three sprays..., and journal self effects (if any) and effects on others (if any).

The only thing I'd recommend is using them by themselves so as to not muddy the signal and get a clearer idea of what each molecule does. And I think we should all test out the same molecule, concentration, and dosage at the same time to make it easier to look at range of effect for each concentration and dosage. A separate thread for each coded molecule would make that easier to track as well.

I'll set up a spreadsheet to track the information and after our runs for each one I can publish a synopsis for each molecule along with its real name. That would give us an idea if we need further testing or not on each molecule, for example if there are conflicting reports or whatnot.

Diane

Fantastic Ideas! I'd love the opportunity to contribute to the fund or help with shipping. I also like the double blind aspect of having one person obtain and code the molecules, send them to another who puts test numbers on them and sends them to testers. That way no one knows who has what until the two lists are put together at the end of the test.

IMHO tests would go quicker if each one was kept to 2 test vials, say 1 test molecule and a control like a-nol or plain perfumers alcohol and sent to the testers on a regular basis like once a month or every two months. If 5 molecules are sent at once it will take longer for all the results to come in and the "reveal" to be made. Doing "reveals" more often keeps interest high. I realize that it would also increase the postal costs. Perhaps that would be off set by not having to get as many chemicals all at once.

I would like to see androstanone, epiandrosterone, dehydroepiandrosterone in the line up. I've seen all three of these listed in both male and female products. Again if I can help in anyway lemme know.

(10-21-2009 5:05 AM)Tisha Wrote:  I think its a fantastic ideal Diane and very generous of you to commit your time to this. We all know time is worth more then money and we cant expect you to brunt the bill. I am sure people who are interested in these molecules and what they do would donate to a central fund for testing. It may start slow at first but it will pick up as we go along.

Yes, Diane is an absolute doll in this!!

Quote:I know you mention you wish we would not identify with AD so much. I can understand that with testing these new molecules. You want a clean slate. However I dont think it could be avoided. People will try to describe the reactions and AD putatives with probably get mentioned for comparative reasons.

You're right on this. Most of us have spent considerable time at PT, going to be hard not to draw comparisons.

Quote: While only members are permited in this section believe me they are not above sending in a decoy to see what we are up to. Not that it would matter but I just feel more comfort this way. I dont know how you all feel about this though.

Perhaps for the time being, only "known entities" should be given a password, later as the unknowns prove themselves they could be included??

Quote:Right now I agree, I dont think they have the funds to do much research and they are struggling to stay afloat which is why you see so much out of stock. Amy claims it takes time to make some of the molecules but they do not make anything except mixes that come from a recipe provided by MH. Its like making cake. Sure if you had to collect all the ingrediants it would take a lot longer. Ya got to milk the cow, collect the eggs and harvest some wheat but when you buy it in the box it only takes a hour . They buy there molecules from a chemical lab. It should not take months to restock. My guess its lack of funds for whatever reason that is keeping those shelves empty and leading to the poor decisions they have made. I am not including Steve is that statement, he is the only bright light coming from over there. I was with him when jasmin had her\ baby and he took over and let me tell you the place was a total mess. He saved it then from going under and if they let him he can do it again but they keep letting there egos get in the way.

I think you are right about this. As you and I know, Michael has a history of monetary problems, and from my point of view, Steve was probably a savior of their site.

Quote:One thing I do request though is that we dont hold off on telling people what the molecule is long. Maybe do a phase 1 blind then reveal oncve everyone reports in. I have been though the blind testing wringer for so long I dont look forward to that anymore.

Tisha

Yeah, PT is already holding back.

(10-21-2009 11:34 AM)renny Wrote:  Fantastic Ideas! I'd love the opportunity to contribute to the fund or help with shipping. I also like the double blind aspect of having one person obtain and code the molecules, send them to another who puts test numbers on them and sends them to testers. That way no one knows who has what until the two lists are put together at the end of the test.

IMHO tests would go quicker if each one was kept to 2 test vials, say 1 test molecule and a control like a-nol or plain perfumers alcohol and sent to the testers on a regular basis like once a month or every two months. If 5 molecules are sent at once it will take longer for all the results to come in and the "reveal" to be made. Doing "reveals" more often keeps interest high. I realize that it would also increase the postal costs. Perhaps that would be off set by not having to get as many chemicals all at once.

I would like to see androstanone, epiandrosterone, dehydroepiandrosterone in the line up. I've seen all three of these listed in both male and female products. Again if I can help in anyway lemme know.

Androstanone - 5α-Androstan-3-one or 5α-Androstan-17-one or both?

Diane

5α-Androstan-3-one is the one I think I've seen around most, but I suppose both would be good. I wish these things had more human friendly names like Instant Attention or something...oh wait, nevermind .

I love it!

Mark and I talked about this yesterday and it sounds like a great idea to set up a "fund" to off-set the cost for Diane. I'm in. If everyone is in agreement we'll set it up!

Sending out samples a couple at a time is going to start adding up....$$$. Even if we receive several at a time (to cut down mailing costs) we can still agree to test one at a time in the order specified...and perhaps do it within a time frame in which to "reveal" our results. Unless, of course, the initial outlay for a variety of testing molecules is too great to do so. I like the double blind idea as well. Phya...spreadsheet/synopsis, check! Limit testers, check! A "Name That Molecule" contest with prizes, sounds like fun, check!

Although we've been "testing" AD products for a long time we're still, mostly, in the dark about them. Even so, I don't know how we'll be able to avoid comparison to AD products. As Tisha said, comparison may be useful as to describing feelings and reactions that we are familiar with. I don't see anything wrong with it if that can help us.

It's obvious Androtics is in financial trouble and has been for some time. That might be all or part of the reason for the lies and manipulation. It was a mess when I first joined. MH "disappeared" and Jasmin was floundering...big time. If the shagalicious SteveO hadn't stepped in at that time, God knows they might have fallen in the Pacific then. Don't count on Jasmin/MH letting him do his job...that ain't gonna happen. It's evident they have trouble working with people...look at their track record...anybody need a list of who's come...and gone? I have all the faith in the world in SteveO but the ship is sinking, he has no life preserver, and his hands are tied. I think they're gonna sell off what they've got....dumping whatever they have left on the shelves into bottles ... and then ... phtttt! Perhaps they'll resurface under another name. Gee, that'd be a shock.

I'm willing to give almost anyone the benefit of the doubt...until they show me I can't. I hung in for as long as I could but...too much smoke and mirrors. Houdini ain't got nothin' on them! At this point no matter what they say, I don't believe them. It's a lot like breaking up with a lover who dun ya wrong. Ya cry...beat your chest...drown your sorrows...then it's time to move on to someone who respects you and treats you right, whom you can trust. That'd be you, Diane.
I applaud your initiative and understand your motivation. I have a vested interest in your success because I believe you are dedicated to personal excellence. I've said it to Mark many times and he agrees. You want to produce/use the best products. That means you'll only associate yourself with it if it's right. That means I can trust what you say is in the bottle...is actually in the bottle! I can't be assured of that with AD products. The fact that you want to make a profit...well, Jeez...eeyeah! I just don't think you have to lie and manipulate to do it and neither do you....happily and thankfully for the rest of us.

As Mark said we wanted to lock this forum away from prying eyes. However, it's really not that exclusive. The way it's set up, anyone who has ten posts can have access. In fact, all present members already have access. Yes, most of them are "know entities" but that won't always be the case unless we decide to limit it to those we choose. Though I really hate the whole "exclusive" thing, it's really more to protect us rather than to exclude anyone. The way things have been going, we do need to protect ourselves. Perhaps we should consider Diane's suggestion of a more private sub-forum for reporting by just the actual testers while keeping this forum for updates.

Instead of always questioning, to no avail, I'm looking forward to actually getting some answers. This is exciting!



Bella

(10-22-2009 3:46 AM)Bella Wrote:  As Mark said we wanted to lock this forum away from prying eyes. However, it's really not that exclusive. The way it's set up, anyone who has ten posts can have access. In fact, all present members already have access. Yes, most of them are "know entities" but that won't always be the case unless we decide to limit it to those we choose. Though I really hate the whole "exclusive" thing, it's really more to protect us rather than to exclude anyone. The way things have been going, we do need to protect ourselves. Perhaps we should consider Diane's suggestion of a more private sub-forum for reporting by just the actual testers while keeping this forum for updates.


Bella

Not anymore! The access permissions for this forum have now been changed to be viewable only to a new user group created for "Trusted Members", and all of our friends, or "known entities" as Bella put it have been moved into this new user group.

The forum will not be viewable to "Registered Members", regardless of how much they post. It will take the action of one of the Administrators moving them into the "Trusted Members" group before they will ever see this forum, and they will still need to be given the password to access it.

So we have 2 layers of protection to keep the "prying eyes" out.

And, access can be just as easily revoked as it can be granted.

(10-22-2009 3:46 AM)Bella Wrote:  I love it!

Mark and I talked about this yesterday and it sounds like a great idea to set up a "fund" to off-set the cost for Diane. I'm in. If everyone is in agreement we'll set it up!

Sending out samples a couple at a time is going to start adding up....$$$. Even if we receive several at a time (to cut down mailing costs) we can still agree to test one at a time in the order specified...and perhaps do it within a time frame in which to "reveal" our results. Unless, of course, the initial outlay for a variety of testing molecules is too great to do so. I like the double blind idea as well. Phya...spreadsheet/synopsis, check! Limit testers, check! A "Name That Molecule" contest with prizes, sounds like fun, check!

Although we've been "testing" AD products for a long time we're still, mostly, in the dark about them. Even so, I don't know how we'll be able to avoid comparison to AD products. As Tisha said, comparison may be useful as to describing feelings and reactions that we are familiar with. I don't see anything wrong with it if that can help us.

It's obvious Androtics is in financial trouble and has been for some time. That might be all or part of the reason for the lies and manipulation. It was a mess when I first joined. MH "disappeared" and Jasmin was floundering...big time. If the shagalicious SteveO hadn't stepped in at that time, God knows they might have fallen in the Pacific then. Don't count on Jasmin/MH letting him do his job...that ain't gonna happen. It's evident they have trouble working with people...look at their track record...anybody need a list of who's come...and gone? I have all the faith in the world in SteveO but the ship is sinking, he has no life preserver, and his hands are tied. I think they're gonna sell off what they've got....dumping whatever they have left on the shelves into bottles ... and then ... phtttt! Perhaps they'll resurface under another name. Gee, that'd be a shock.

I'm willing to give almost anyone the benefit of the doubt...until they show me I can't. I hung in for as long as I could but...too much smoke and mirrors. Houdini ain't got nothin' on them! At this point no matter what they say, I don't believe them. It's a lot like breaking up with a lover who dun ya wrong. Ya cry...beat your chest...drown your sorrows...then it's time to move on to someone who respects you and treats you right, whom you can trust. That'd be you, Diane.
I applaud your initiative and understand your motivation. I have a vested interest in your success because I believe you are dedicated to personal excellence. I've said it to Mark many times and he agrees. You want to produce/use the best products. That means you'll only associate yourself with it if it's right. That means I can trust what you say is in the bottle...is actually in the bottle! I can't be assured of that with AD products. The fact that you want to make a profit...well, Jeez...eeyeah! I just don't think you have to lie and manipulate to do it and neither do you....happily and thankfully for the rest of us.

As Mark said we wanted to lock this forum away from prying eyes. However, it's really not that exclusive. The way it's set up, anyone who has ten posts can have access. In fact, all present members already have access. Yes, most of them are "know entities" but that won't always be the case unless we decide to limit it to those we choose. Though I really hate the whole "exclusive" thing, it's really more to protect us rather than to exclude anyone. The way things have been going, we do need to protect ourselves. Perhaps we should consider Diane's suggestion of a more private sub-forum for reporting by just the actual testers while keeping this forum for updates.

Instead of always questioning, to no avail, I'm looking forward to actually getting some answers. This is exciting!



Bella

Tisha Wrote:tetrahydrodeoxy-corticosterone
This on has me stumped a bit. Its a neurosteroid.................
It is synthesised in the brain from deoxycorticosterone by the action of two enzymes, 5α-reductase type I and 3α-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase.[2] THDOC has sedative, anxiolytic and anticonvulsant effects,[3] and changes in the normal levels of this steroid particularly during pregnancy and menstruation may be involved in some types of epilepsy,as well as stress, anxiety and depression.
The bold part concerns me but this is once its synthecized by the brain. Not something I would choose to wear as a phermone.
http://www.find-health-articles.com/rec_...thetic.htm
Some have said it creates a chemical bond like in that between mother and child.
Also some sellers claim it resets a persons neurotransmitters and creates a memory loss of sorts so you can present your self in a new light. Of course there is nothing to scientifically back this up. In fact most abstracts indicate it dosent ever bind with the neurotransmitters thus it cant signal. I dont know one way or the other but I wont make claims that at least dont have some sort of scientific backing on this one.

Just read this again...does this remind anyone of TAK?

(10-25-2009 7:10 PM)renny Wrote:  Just read this again...does this remind anyone of TAK?

Sounds like TAF to me. Anyone ever go back and read all the early journals on the putatives and test pheromones? Several people were talking about having a "reset" kind of moment and slice of memory loss with TAF. I think it was just a too high concentration.

The other thing that is interesting is everyone early on talked about TAF's ability to reset the playing field and give you another brand new chance. Does that sound like TH-Doc?

Diane