SUMMARY.— Slices of skin from human subjects have been shown to transform 3H-dehydroepiandrosterone predominantly to 4-androstene-3,17-dione and 5-androstene-3β,17β-diol. Testosterone, testosterone sulphate and dehydro-epiandrosterone sulphate were not formed in detectable amounts under the conditions of the investigation. Skin from the shoulder appeared significantly more active than that from the thigh or axilla in metabolizing the dehydro-epiandrosterone.

(Sci-hub is down, so you'll have to access the full paper the old fashioned way)

If Athena indeed contains DHEA as suspected, perhaps it's possible that the pheromonal results come from conversion to androstenedione and androstenediol.

Given that metabolism of DHEA is different depending upon the body part, it's interesting to speculate whether the app point of pheromonal compounds results in different effects.

A.

None of the effects I've seen reported of Athena strike me as consistent with that of DHEA (which tends to be quite obvious and immediate in its effects - how many reports of Athena mentioned immediate or obvious effects?). The 4-DHEA hypothesis seems more plausible to me - hopefully one of us will take the plunge and test this molecule at some point. I'd love to, but the one source I've found is a bit higher than what my current budget allows.

It depends upon the dose and the carrier, I suppose. I've noticed the same sort of response from an old transdermal DHEA product from a company called Primordial Performance. That is, sudden attraction/IOIs after some days of use. My guess it is some sort of base hormone that converts after the build up and that the carrier contains some sort of penetrant and is not just etoh. What that hormone is, well your guess is as good as mine.

I'm pretty sure you can buy still buy 4-DHEA as a prohormone. May not be the purest form, but easily accessible.

A.

I remember Primordial Performance and their Transdermals!! What a time!!

(06-22-2016 2:07 AM)Alphonse Wrote:  My guess it is some sort of base hormone that converts after the build up and that the carrier contains some sort of penetrant and is not just etoh. What that hormone is, well your guess is as good as mine.

This I strongly agree with. I wonder if Athena's efects aren't driven by low levels of various trace components formed on the skin, building a unique foundation for other mixes to work in an ideal manner.

Formulators would do well to start paying attention to how low doses of trace components can affect a mix. This is part of what separates great mixes with average mixes, whether through deliberate alterations in the formula or through the use of impure synthesis methods. I'm curious to know which impurities are formed through the more common molecules such as androsterone, androstenone, androstanone, etc.

(06-11-2016 3:13 PM)Alphonse Wrote:  SUMMARY.— Slices of skin from human subjects have been shown to transform 3H-dehydroepiandrosterone predominantly to 4-androstene-3,17-dione and 5-androstene-3β,17β-diol. Testosterone, testosterone sulphate and dehydro-epiandrosterone sulphate were not formed in detectable amounts under the conditions of the investigation. Skin from the shoulder appeared significantly more active than that from the thigh or axilla in metabolizing the dehydro-epiandrosterone.

(Sci-hub is down, so you'll have to access the full paper the old fashioned way)

If Athena indeed contains DHEA as suspected, perhaps it's possible that the pheromonal results come from conversion to androstenedione and androstenediol.

Given that metabolism of DHEA is different depending upon the body part, it's interesting to speculate whether the app point of pheromonal compounds results in different effects.

A.

I suspect that metabolism of DHEA is only different depending on which body part you source skin from due to the differing levels of androgen receptors in different parts of the body.

For example, the Chest, Shoulders, Biceps, and Traps all have significantly more androgen receptors than say your quadriceps muscle. This is why bodybuilders on steroids often have difficulty not becoming disproportionately larger in their upper body than their lower body. This is also why you get acne on your chest, upper back, and traps while very rarely getting any on your legs.

this also leads to whole new areas of how you apply not just DHEA but any hormone/prohormone/phero/substance to the skin and the absorption capability of various formulas.

so many tests are direct sprays to skin where likely trace amounts are absorbed straight thru the sinus membranes and eyes etc. Add to it how the body processes prohormone substances versus bio-identical versus analogues from animals and and low grade synthetics...

I've often wondered about heat activated odor pads.

I'm sure the cosmetics and chemist folks are likely looking into this - the permutations are endless, I'm sure.

When i wear it, I have been putting OD on the tops of my shoulders and upper arms. This seems to aid in better diffusion. That must be what i thought i heard once at a gym, when someone told me that the shoulders are more "anabolic". Something definitely got lost in translation there.

(06-22-2016 2:52 PM)Spars Wrote:  When i wear it, I have been putting OD on the tops of my shoulders and upper arms. This seems to aid in better diffusion. That must be what i thought i heard once at a gym, when someone told me that the shoulders are more "anabolic". Something definitely got lost in translation there.

More likely it was a gym bro that still thinks you need 6 meals a day and a ton of carbs post workout before you start losing muscle mass.

I avoid people like that simply to retain my sanity. Though it's always nice when I see an older one with internally rotated shoulders, a blown out rotator cuff, a slap tear, and that's overweight/prediabetic because they refused to accept that maybe their juiced up guru could have been wrong about some things.