I think i'm done with est products...it's making me fat and unmotivated...and I'm not even applying it on my skin...Idk if 5 sprays is a lot on clothes that it soaks in to my skin? but I dont get much hits with TL tbh. I might keep using erox. but I don't like the way my friends treat me when i'm wearing erox alone. only reason Im gonna use it again is cuz I really like the smell. I would use erox combined more, but I dont think its a strong enough cover scent for more mones...any thoughts on est products or TL and EROX experience??

I use erox every now and then. I apply it to clothes just like you do.

Last summer i started feeling fatigued and had no motivation. Coincidentally i was also using a lot of TL. Could it have been the meo est? I stopped using TL and got my testosterone checked out. It was low.

I dont believe it was only the meo est. im not even sure if there is a connection. I was eating a lot of blueberries and strawberries. These were not organic and in the top ten fruits to avoid because of pesticide residue. Those also have estrogenic effects.

I feel much better now after going more paleo and organic.

I used to think it was the dheas that my ex was responding so well with when i used glace. Now im pretty sure its the est. i wore dheas the other day with my usual ace and no real hit with her. When i paired my mixes with erox i get hits. She responds well to glace which has both est and dheas.

I believe now she responds well to est. i wont stop using est and i will use meo est sparingly.

Est is too good to avoid completely. Moderation is key.

damn. ive been applying glace to my skin a lot lately too...so that's one of the factors too...I think I have the older glace. slow burn? how long does it take to start working if applied to clothes at around 65-75 degrees?

Dude i dont know if est is the issue. I would lean more to the meo est.

Slow burn is silicon based and less likely to be absorbed by the skin

*pokes tummy*
Oh that might explain a few things....
Or i just love food a lot....

(10-18-2012 12:09 AM)paradigmshift Wrote:  I use erox every now and then. I apply it to clothes just like you do.

Last summer i started feeling fatigued and had no motivation. Coincidentally i was also using a lot of TL. Could it have been the meo est? I stopped using TL and got my testosterone checked out. It was low.

I dont believe it was only the meo est. im not even sure if there is a connection. I was eating a lot of blueberries and strawberries. These were not organic and in the top ten fruits to avoid because of pesticide residue. Those also have estrogenic effects.

I feel much better now after going more paleo and organic.

I used to think it was the dheas that my ex was responding so well with when i used glace. Now im pretty sure its the est. i wore dheas the other day with my usual ace and no real hit with her. When i paired my mixes with erox i get hits. She responds well to glace which has both est and dheas.

I believe now she responds well to est. i wont stop using est and i will use meo est sparingly.

Est is too good to avoid completely. Moderation is key.

It's the androstadienone.

It raises cortisol levels which is killing you.

The paleo diet and organics are a joke and negligible. You want more testosterone, drink whole milk, do some leg work outs, and stop masturbating.

(10-19-2012 10:54 AM)okyoureabeast Wrote:  It's the androstadienone.

It raises cortisol levels which is killing you.

The paleo diet and organics are a joke and negligible. You want more testosterone, drink whole milk, do some leg work outs, and stop masturbating.

Lol.

Cant be the Androstadienone . I use that daily and many days have used just cohesion which is primarily Androstadienone .

Paleo and organics is working for me. I should rephrase that as no grains or grain products

Im lactose intolerant so i never drink milk. But thats me.

As far as masturbating goes when i was at low testosterone i had lost the desire to masturbate so i had basically stopped masturbating and still felt off.

I feel i am at my strongest today and cant wait to see what my testosterone levels are.

Is it just paleo and organics? Probably not. Its part of the big picture. Part of that big picture is not using as much TL like I used to

Androstadienone definitely makes me feel unmotivated. I've seen that on many occasions. It usually takes 3-4 hours for the effects to creep in. While it's a light effect at 20mcg, it can get pretty severe at 50-60mcg. Especially when worn solo.

(10-19-2012 11:27 AM)paradigmshift Wrote:  Lol.

Cant be the Androstadienone . I use that daily and many days have used just cohesion which is primarily Androstadienone .

Paleo and organics is working for me. I should rephrase that as no grains or grain products

Im lactose intolerant so i never drink milk. But thats me.

As far as masturbating goes when i was at low testosterone i had lost the desire to masturbate so i had basically stopped masturbating and still felt off.

I feel i am at my strongest today and cant wait to see what my testosterone levels are.

Is it just paleo and organics? Probably not. Its part of the big picture. Part of that big picture is not using as much TL like I used to

Makes sense, whatever works for you. I have a friend who is Mr. Vegan and complains about how skinny he is. I just face palm at that

How much androstadienone are you using as a standalone? 4-5 sprays of TL puts the Androstadienone up towards the 100mg+ level which is murderous in my opinion. Pago mentioned this in a post somewhere and I can't seem to find it. I can handle up to 50 mcg using drops of androstadienone ok anything above that I start to oneitis.

Im happy with my workout progress. I can bench just over my body weight and im close to where i want to be fitness wise for ice hockey.

Usually 1 to 2 drops cohesion. Ive definitely broken 100 mcg of Androstadienone .

Despite all of the Androstadienone ive used i dont get negative effects from it.

I used to crash on Androstadienone . It was around 50 mcg. 2nd spray at 25 mcg a spray and it totally killed my mood spirit motivation.

I just wanted to sleep.

All i know is i hardly use TL. TL does weird shit with cops. Totally turned a girl off. She was used to Androstadienone and Instant Honesty and bam i hit her with cops and TL. She was into sex with Androstadienone and Instant Honesty. Totally turned off with TL and FTL.

And another friend gave me the third degree about who i was seeing when i told her i wasnt seeing anyone. TL and DG.

TL gave me other issues. High doses and a friend would treat me like a kid always making sure to accompany me everywhere at work. That may have been the est.

Another issue with est is in high doses it kills the desire to have sex

From another tl post but this quote is from dianes defunct forum

Moderation is probably key. Dont forget est is in here. 5 sprays is a lot of everything.

This is from p7 forum

I know a lot of us love EST, the way it turns our rager into a loving kitten, and how it induces our guys to really take care of us.

But have you ever wondered why when you get so much cuddling on EST, it often doesn't lead where you'd like it to go?

If you use too high concentration of EST as a pheromone he will feel really good, but it will drop his libido way down.

Estratetraenol causes the hypothalamus to dump oxytocin into the blood stream and into the surrounding intracellular space of the hypothalamus, specifically the preoptic areas and the nucleus accumbens. Both oxytocin and dopamine bind to the same receptors in these areas.

A little oxytocin is necessary for orgasm. Too little oxytocin and no orgasm can be achieved. Too much oxytocin and he doesn't want to bother because he feels so satiated and satisfied.

Dopamine is necessary for desire. If you block the receptors for dopamine with too much oxytocin he will have no desire.

So there has to be a balance here between oxytocin and dopamine, and the pheromones that influence the the release of these neurotransmitters. So if you are using EST, use it sparingly... if you want to use it successfully to improve your love life.

Diane


Reference: Dopamine and male sexual function. Giuliano F, Allard J. Groupe de Recherche en Urologie, UPRES, EA 1602, Medical University of Paris South, Le Kremlin-Bicetre, France. Eur Urol 2001 Dec;40(6):601-8


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