(05-11-2011 7:42 PM)dbot Wrote:  What You'll Need

You'll need a little bit of lab equipment and some basic supplies to do this well. Most of the equipment can be gotten at the Container Store for a few bucks. You'll need:

• 10, 15, or 30mL dropper bottles
• A perfume funnel
• A measuring vial with marks at least for 10, 20, and 30mL (and preferably with a cap so you can shake it)
• A coffee filter
• Some small spray bottles
• Perfumer's alcohol (PA) or Everclear
• A carrier oil such as dipropylene glycol (DPG), fractionated coconut oil (FCO), or jojoba. Household grapeseed oil can also be used in a pinch.
• Any essential oil, fragrance oil, or scent that you would like to flavor your final product with.
  

Okay, trying to gather my thoughts here... I probably have a rogue spray bottle somewhere, Everclear, coffee filters, a funnel.. Planning on getting some DPG, and maybe this may work as a vial? I suppose if I need to shake it, I can put it in a separate temporary container.

I'm becoming a bit confused after completely reading this thread. So what's the final verdict? Should I filter, or should I not? Any drawbacks I should be aware of?

Also, using Bod instead of everclear means my spray will be Bod scented, correct? My main goal is an unscented spray. I may add a touch of Nag Champa if I need to scent it a little.

My apologies on asking so many questions, but I'm trying to become mentally prepared before I dive right in.

I just read up a bit on pregnenolone - I wonder if it is being absorbed by the skin? It can be dosed under the tongue to bypass the liver.
Recommended oral doses are all over the range - I think because "everybody is different" it makes sense to be very conservative dosing with neno.
1-5 mg oral is what this guy is saying, I am wondering how much of one or more 2.6mg sprays will be absorbed into the bloodstream?

It would be nice with neno and others to be able to isolate self-effects that may be from bloodstream absorption and other-effects from aerosolization/evaporation, maybe by using a dliuent like the Cyclomethicone+Dimethicone+Alcohol base that Chris uses at Alpha Dream - it is supposed to layer between the skin and the mones to allow them to diffuse better, but I wonder if anyone knows if a "layer" like this exists that can prevent neno and other mones from being absorbed into the skin?

dbot you may have read these already but they got me concerned with the dosing levels and continued exposure.

http://www.tongkatali.net/pregnenolone.html

http://www.raysahelian.com/pregnenolone.html

Also I picked up an orbital buffer for waxing my car at Big Lots (discount retail shop here in US) for around $15 - basically a half-loaf of bread-sized electric motor and plastic housing with handles with a big foam circle on the bottom, intended to be covered with a fuzzy mitten-type cover. It vibrates powerfully in an orbital motion without rotating the foam bottom at all.

For mixing, I would imagine this would make a great mixer if fixed so that the foam is up in the air, and holding a sealed container (plastic/glass jar) would vibrate and mix very nicely!
This is basically the item, I've seen them in pawn shops real cheap too : http://amzn.com/B003R4EITU

Compare to a lab bench vortex mixer - very small one runs around $200 - http://www.labplanet.com/vwr-lab-dancer-...65040.html

So maybe add an orbital buffer to your homebrew mone mixmaster lab!

Wow lots of questions!

@2soon - the coffee filters I use are actually unbleached, although I don't know if the residual stuff would do any harm in this application.

Regarding dosing, the sprays you're making will be diluted down to micrograms (mcg), not milligrams (mg). All pheromones are steroids, hormones, amines, or similar biogenic compounds, so with any of them there is a chance of some absorption through the skin. I use FCO as a fixative, and perfumers say it forms a barrier on the skin, but I don't really know.

@tx - I'm not sure what Bod is. If it's a cologne, it would probably work as a solvent (not really sure) and your concentrate would be scented. I still filter out the schmutz; some choose not to.

(07-21-2011 10:55 PM)dbot Wrote:  @tx - I'm not sure what Bod is. If it's a cologne, it would probably work as a solvent (not really sure) and your concentrate would be scented. I still filter out the schmutz; some choose not to.

It's this stuff. Basically like Axe or Tag, just with an different type of spray delivery. Jaycee mentioned it and how he uses those for his spray containers (gets 'em for $1 ea, dumps out the contents usually).

Bleh, no good for me then. I suppose if I enjoy the scent of one of them (and was in a bind) I'd use the cologne as my solvent, but not for my first batch.

Unless someone can convince me otherwise, I'll probably filter as well. Makes it more presentable!

@dbot - I was reading one of kmacc's posts where I thought he said his spray/drop would be 2500 mcg = 2.5 mg? Maybe I read it wrong..
I hate searching in the forum for posts, very clumsy, can't find it...
I'll assume I read it wrong, thanks!

(07-21-2011 10:55 PM)dbot Wrote:  Regarding dosing, the sprays you're making will be diluted down to micrograms (mcg), not milligrams (mg). All pheromones are steroids, hormones, amines, or similar biogenic compounds, so with any of them there is a chance of some absorption through the skin. I use FCO as a fixative, and perfumers say it forms a barrier on the skin, but I don't really know.

Yeah, the concentrate that you make out of the supplements is... concentrated

So then you dilute it to make dosed sprays.

Ahhhh yes, well it is 1:32am, I'm not at all surprised I missed a part...

I'd still love to know if some of the mixologist gurus could propose a diluent/carrier mix that would generally promise to keep the mones from absorbing into the bloodstream...

(07-21-2011 11:31 PM)dbot Wrote:  Yeah, the concentrate that you make out of the supplements is... concentrated

So then you dilute it to make dosed sprays.

@dbot check this out, tell me what you think.
http://purebulk.com/l-phenylalanine

http://purebulk.com/phenylethylamine-hcl-c-98

(07-21-2011 11:33 PM)2Soon2Care Wrote:  Ahhhh yes, well it is 1:32am, I'm not at all surprised I missed a part...

I'd still love to know if some of the mixologist gurus could propose a diluent/carrier mix that would generally promise to keep the mones from absorbing into the bloodstream...

(07-21-2011 11:31 PM)dbot Wrote:  Yeah, the concentrate that you make out of the supplements is... concentrated

So then you dilute it to make dosed sprays.

The only way to stop the skin absorbtion is to not spray it on it! There are also some other ways but they are not practicable for normal people!

these absorbtion is not always so bad because end metabolites like (-none, nol, Androsterone) are inaktive! Even precursors like neno or dhea are not as bad because the conversion to aktive steroids is enzymatic regulated and will not happen if you have enough!

Problems can be caused by hormonic aktiv steroids and I also would be carefull with biogen amines, neurotransmitters and high neuroactive substances!


to filter use a filterpaper or like dbot unbleached coffeefilters but cut it down as much as possible because it will suck up a lot of liquid which is lost!

if you want to make 30ml concentrate then dillute your capsule in 25 ml and filter that! then take other 5 ml solvent and wash the filter and the "schmutz"! So you got 30 ml with less loss of substance! You will always lose some liquid in the filter so take your bottle where you want to fill it in and fill in the volume you want to have and mark the level on the bottle before you start!


To calculate your concentration you can use the formula:

ß= m/v

ß= mass concentration m= mass (in gramm) v= volume ( in ml or l)


then together

ß1 x v1 = ß2x v2


as example if you want dillute a 100 mg capsule in 30 ml

ß= 100mg/ 30ml = 3,333 mg/ml



if you now want a concentration of of 30 mcg per spray you calculate

1 spray is around 0,15 ml so 1 ml is about 6,666 sprays

so calculate 30mcg x 6,666 = 199,98 mcg/ml --> for 30mcg per spray



if you want 5 ml of that 30 mcg per spray solution

ß1 x v1 = ß2 x v2

in this case ß1 is the concentration of the concentrate and ß2 is the wished concentration of the diluted solution! V1 is the volume you need of the concentrate and V2 is the wished volume of diluted solution! I calculated in mg but you can also calculate in gramm or mcg! The same with the volume, I took ml but you can also use litre or cm3! Important is only that you use the same unit on both sites!!!

3,333 mg/ml x v1 = 0,19998 mg/ml x 5 ml

v1 = (0,19998 mg/ml x 5 ml) / 3,333 mg/ml

v1 = 0,3 ml

--> You need 0,3 ml of the concentrate and dilute it with 4,7 ml of your solvent

-->so you have 5 ml solution with 199,98 mcg/ml ( 0,19998 mg/ml) or 30 mcg per spray