Is it just my crazy thinking, or has all the old posters been outdated by all the NEW MONE EXPERTS?

That's about how things have been trending for the padt year, if not longer. Some of the new "experts" have been bringing something valuable to the table recently rather than regurgitating others' reports. I like the direction things are going, though I wish some of the other veterans would bother posting more often.

They are probably too lazy to post.Saw couple of them online and checking threads.

I think many longterm users have found what works and stick to the same products.

You can only fall for the hype around new products before you become disillusioned and realise things don't really improve, they simply change. Rather like a funky suit, sometimes the new product is interesting enough to test a few times, but you'll still go back to rocking the old 2-button navy suit most days.

Plus there's only so many times you can read the same threads ("how can I get my girlfriend back?" or "tell me what x product does? What about Y? What about Z? What will happen if I combine X, Y and Z?") before you throw your hands in the air and say fuck it.

A.

It's funny that after over a decade, we still look back to many mixes at least that old as the best examples in their class. Old A314, MAG, New Pheromone Additive, Pantyscorcher, MX292, MX297...hell, even Scent of Eros still holds its own today. Mixologists have a severely limited palette to work with. It's often hard to believe how far ahead Androtics was at the time. Discoveries I believed less than a few months ago to be absolutely groundbreaking had already been undertaken by Androtics in the early days. If things are to move forward, the putatives must become known and, more importantly, formulators will need to learn how best to put them to use.

Do you mean names like dBot Tacitus Pagodeiro Dexter Thundr etc....

I suspect some of these guys had more spare time in college/graduate work or whatever stage they were at in life and could spare more posting time. Others probably have their own private forum.

Some likely mastered what they needed and check in now and then... others went on to create their own mixes.

Some around probably only stimulated when interesting discoveries or questions come up.

Maybe more than a few have secret formulas they keep to themselves realizing that even minor gains in human influence can have major career implications in certain fields.

I still think the majority of the population considers this hokum pursued by folks looking for a magic pill to make up for social deficiencies. But imagine if the auto manufacturers, stores, cosmetic industry, medical and teaching professions not to mention politicians and entertainment industry started using these things at scale?

Years ago, my girl and I were clearing out her Dad's place and found some prohormone cream. I laughed and said "what is this bunk". For the hell of it, I smeared some on my thighs. Next thing I know I was rock hard and super charged. WTF? Totally wrote it off as industry hype and so did many other folks.

Then a few years later the stuff gets banned? Why? Because it worked but a few folks over used it (aka teenagers) idiots looking for a magic pill.

I imagine that if I was pretty sophisticated in these arts, I might reach a point where I would want to trade information only with well qualified researchers lest the newbs get a hold of tidbits and go overboard or every dbag tries to start their own mone house....

After awhile the same themes come up over and over again: how can I get laid, how can I master fallout, how can I seduce a lesbian, how can win friends and influence people, land a job....

And the same reports from fanboys: I work X and you should have seen the looks... shit people were fawning over me... OMG animals and kids love me now.

Not to mention the variation in reporting - folks claiming to "get hits" because the woman at the coffee shop twirls her hair while she is having a ditz moment....

I could see how that would all get boring after awhile if you had moved in the role of serious research....

(06-22-2016 8:41 AM)Jimmycrack Wrote:  Do you mean names like dBot Tacitus Pagodeiro Dexter Thundr etc....

I suspect some of these guys had more spare time in college/graduate work or whatever stage they were at in life and could spare more posting time. Others probably have their own private forum.

Some likely mastered what they needed and check in now and then... others went on to create their own mixes.

Some around probably only stimulated when interesting discoveries or questions come up.

Maybe more than a few have secret formulas they keep to themselves realizing that even minor gains in human influence can have major career implications in certain fields.

I still think the majority of the population considers this hokum pursued by folks looking for a magic pill to make up for social deficiencies. But imagine if the auto manufacturers, stores, cosmetic industry, medical and teaching professions not to mention politicians and entertainment industry started using these things at scale?

Years ago, my girl and I were clearing out her Dad's place and found some prohormone cream. I laughed and said "what is this bunk". For the hell of it, I smeared some on my thighs. Next thing I know I was rock hard and super charged. WTF? Totally wrote it off as industry hype and so did many other folks.

Then a few years later the stuff gets banned? Why? Because it worked but a few folks over used it (aka teenagers) idiots looking for a magic pill.

I imagine that if I was pretty sophisticated in these arts, I might reach a point where I would want to trade information only with well qualified researchers lest the newbs get a hold of tidbits and go overboard or every dbag tries to start their own mone house....

After awhile the same themes come up over and over again: how can I get laid, how can I master fallout, how can I seduce a lesbian, how can win friends and influence people, land a job....

And the same reports from fanboys: I work X and you should have seen the looks... shit people were fawning over me... OMG animals and kids love me now.

Not to mention the variation in reporting - folks claiming to "get hits" because the woman at the coffee shop twirls her hair while she is having a ditz moment....

I could see how that would all get boring after awhile if you had moved in the role of serious research....

Sounds about right. Most people are not observant. They don't know how to analyze changes in baseline behavior. Good reports are sporadic and all over the place.

I have been doing experiments with mones for years, though I didn't want to join a forum like this because it seemed so juvenile. No direction. No sense of purpose. It was only recently after talking with Garry and Ekscentra that I became invested here.

MMM may feel upset or disappointed that many of the greats are not as active as they used to be. He like many others is understandably frustrated at new posters regurgitating hearsay and advocating mixes on at best tenuous anecdotal evidence.

Anecdotes can have significance in the context of a large sample size and careful attention to changes from past baseline behavior, but anecdotes are useless when sourced from the mind of an adolescent who isn't observant even if he's looking. He sees, but he does not note. He watches, but on the rare instance that he does observe changes, they are not objective observations. He sees what he wants to see. He lets confirmation bias control him. He lets his desires overtake his rational mind.

But allowing yourself to become cynical and jaded because of change in a different direction, or stagnation in others, is a very easy way to ensure that there is no improvement. Do you want real experimentation done? Do you want to see the future of pheromones come about? Then do it yourself. Encourage those who are going down that path to continue. Assist them.

Instead of pushing "newbs" away, tell them why their methodologies are flawed. Maybe you do this 2000 times and it's futile, but maybe that 2001 case is the person who designs the perfect fallout mix because he changed his way of thinking after you helped him.

I very well may have left if my initial reports were met with "you don't have enough posts to be credible, get out of here." Yet that didn't happen. And now my large scale experiments on groundbreaking mixes in the future will be posted here to further the community.

Well said. Basically Eks, Paradox, you, a few others were refreshing and encouraging.

Taken at face value the post was either an outright troll or a legitimate request for some of the long-time, high quality posters to pipe up.... or a veiled complaint that the quality and detail of posts was going down or getting repetitive. I take it as a territory troll. Some post triggered some knee jerk reaction and of course I am notwfeeding the troll.

You have to take the good with the bad in a public forum IMHO. It will evolve, crowds will change. Hopefully it never strays too far from what made it great.

This forum seemed the least brand-biased to me but others have said it has its favorites.

Seems like a great TROLL thread: 'REAL' posters vs what? Inexperienced? Fakes? Shills?

Perhaps the seemingly scientific nature of a post vs an anecdote?

I'm sure there are plenty of folks who have been testing over the last 2 decades who never post. I know I must have observed around 2000-3000 pherocloud reactions to myself under various mones over a 15 year period. But I am sure folks who say slather the stuff on everyday and work at the Mall of America get a lot more exposures.... are they more or less real?

Is a fleeting reaction at a fast food place more or less real than a 8 hour exposure in an office setting or a 1 hour exposure in a meeting?

(06-22-2016 5:30 AM)Ekscentra Wrote:  It's funny that after over a decade, we still look back to many mixes at least that old as the best examples in their class. Old A314, MAG, New Pheromone Additive, Pantyscorcher, MX292, MX297...hell, even Scent of Eros still holds its own today. Mixologists have a severely limited palette to work with. It's often hard to believe how far ahead Androtics was at the time. Discoveries I believed less than a few months ago to be absolutely groundbreaking had already been undertaken by Androtics in the early days. If things are to move forward, the putatives must become known and, more importantly, formulators will need to learn how best to put them to use.

Funny, I think exactly the opposite. The only people who benefit for the search for that One Magical Molecule that will make all the difference are the vendors.

The fact of the matter is that A314 was better when it didn't have 539 magical putatives created in a secret monastery in the Himalayas by blind Tibetan monks. Sure, some of the putatives are interesting, but they did not make a huge difference in the greater scheme of things. None of them are the groundbreaking breakthrough that people were led to believe that they were. I have used many of them, and the majority of them ended up in the bin. Even the more successful ones such as P74, P75, P83, P86 and P96 I can do without and most can be easily replaced.

When there few molecules and only several products, people used them with success. People realised that they added a small factor to normal interactions and used them as tools to improve their careers, sales and their romantic lives.

Those people who could not make them work were the desperate and gullible who swiftly gave up when they realised that they were not magical wands that would instantly transform them into millionaire sex gods with harems of women hanging on their every word.

These days I see more and more of the types of people who will not benefit from mones without significant personal change constantly on the hunt for more pheromones, more combinations, the secret ratio of 7 different products from 7 different vendors that will get them laid, that One Magical Molecule that will guarantee them that thing that they so desperately crave.

Well sorry, but it doesn't exist, and it will never exist. But for £69.99 I can sell you this amazing putative I've discovered that will definitely* get you laid.

A.

* by definitely I mean maybe.

Vendors often add molecules for the sake of it these days, this is true. A314 is an extremely delicate mix that requires highly specific amounts of each molecule in order to work properly. The more complex it became, the less enthusiastic the reports. An expanded pallette must always bring with it the understanding of what each molecule brings to the mix, how it interacts with other molecules, etc. - Androtics gradually lost their finesse, deluding themselves into believing A314 needed additional components still. They never paid attention to their fanbase and the results were highly predictable. They brought a lot to the table in the early days, but in the end, they earned their downfall.