(09-23-2018 9:08 PM)seeusmile Wrote:  I have a lot of work to do for myself.

I wish you luck and success on your self improvement journey.

Honestly when meeting women I think the most important factor is your vibe and the feeling she gets when looks in your eyes. You can improve your vibe with pheromones but you need to be rock solid during the moments when she looks in your eyes or you are dismissed.

(09-23-2018 9:08 PM)seeusmile Wrote:  Really liking the discussion here.

I did not invest more work and time on my skills to be more powerful and better with women, instead I got stuck in my own obsession in trying to experiment and escape the friend zone with someone I known for years.

We have all been there. In just about every case, we never got to be with her. We just wasted months or sometimes years of our lives being desperate and miserable.

But be careful what you wish for! Many times, years after having some type of crush or one-itis on a woman, I'd meet her on the street, or at an event. She had often turned into a grotesque hag, or had a clan of misbehaving kids around her who she was constantly screaming at. These women were once my obsession, now I see them as the bullets which I dodged! And the best is when you bump into her, and you are with another woman, way above her league.
So whenever you think of your one-itis, just create an image in your mind of how she might be in 15 years time; fat, ugly, facial hair, frigid with a repugnant, bitter character. You'll soon move on.

Keep up the self improvement, stop the whoring, and start to create opportunities where you can socialise with women. Good luck!

(09-23-2018 9:08 PM)seeusmile Wrote:  Really liking the discussion here.

I did not invest more work and time on my skills to be more powerful and better with women, instead I got stuck in my own obsession in trying to experiment and escape the friend zone with someone I known for years.

I have a lot of work to do for myself.

Don't be down on yourself, only a true narcissist would ever think that they have everything it takes to get any woman they want. Working on one's womanizing skills is an ongoing thing. It doesn't matter where or when you start; it doesn't matter if you're single, involved in a Long Term Relationship, or married; and it doesn't matter if you're stuck in the friend zone...just look at it like getting into shape or learning a new hobby...have fun with it and devote at least some thought and effort into it and you'll be getting moist panties thrown at you in no time.

Escaping the friend zone, especially if you've been in that cage for years, is no small quest. It is possible, as I have seen a few of my prior padawans do this, but they've never been friend-zoned that long, but there isn't pheromone that will do the job in and of itself. You'll need to do exactly as you stated and change yourself to change the way she sees you. Pheromones will help you to project a new version of you to her; but you'll still need to do the actual work.

(09-23-2018 9:08 PM)seeusmile Wrote:  I've spent time with sex workers, because my limiting belief was 'well I'm if i'm not going to get any sex, I might as well get good at it" While it does fulfill my physical needs and met great sex workers along the punting journey, it still doesn't change the fact that I'm still terrible with women outside of that and I'll miss on that experience on having sex with emotional connection. I only have myself to blame for that.

This is what I was relaying in my response to Paradox. Buying whores will result in the participant ending up with a dull brain because the outcome (sex) is basically guaranteed (Ie with the $$).

When you achieve sex with women by creating connection, working on becoming more charming, being more articulate, learning how to deal with LMR, logistics, pheromones pros and cons , texting etc your brain has to work more for the same outcome. Hence a brighter , more creative brain.

Men who buy whores their whole life become walking zombies with hardons.

(09-24-2018 1:09 PM)dsouza Wrote:  When you achieve sex with women by creating connection, working on becoming more charming, being more articulate, learning how to deal with LMR, logistics, pheromones pros and cons , texting etc your brain has to work more for the same outcome. Hence a brighter , more creative brain.

Dsouza, I'm interested if your opinion on the matter extends to friends with benefits. While pay for play factor isn't there in the case of FWB, the no real effort is needed factor is the whole point of the FWB scenario.

For instance, I am very very very close to hot and naughty hottie whom is married but has a FWB on the side. The husband is fully aware of this relationship. It isn't a cuckolding type thing, but more of what those in the lifestyle would call a Stag & Vixen scenario. The FWB doesn't need to put forth any effort, they just figure out a time to get together and then literally get together.

Does your evaluation extend to that situation?

I'm not attempting to call you out or anything, I'm just curious as to your thoughts as I value your opinion.

@ Gladen

I've never had a FWB in my life -- so this is just my theory:

I would think , however, that since high levels of social intelligence are required to be a popular friend, certain social dynamic skill sets would transfer to a FWB scenario. Also you need to keep the friend amidst the screwing portion, without jeopardizing the friendship. This take skills.

I'm hoping to get a FWB sometime just for the experience. I think younger people can pull it off easier since many of them grew up with HANGING OUT as opposed to dating.

Either way you look at it social skills are required with FWB and it can be mucked up just as easily as a dating or ONS situation.

So succeeding with a FWB is not the same as paying for whores (i.e. guaranteed outcome) either.

(09-24-2018 8:17 PM)dsouza Wrote:  @ Gladen

I'm hoping to get a FWB sometime just for the experience. I think younger people can pull it off easier since many of them grew up with HANGING OUT as opposed to dating.

Either way you look at it social skills are required with FWB and it can be mucked up just as easily as a dating or ONS situation.

Thank you for sharing your insight and opinions. I always appreciate another point of view.

I agree with what you've stated en toto except for one small point.

I believe (from my experience) that older people tend to have a better shot at the FWB scenario. Once us men lose a bit of our self-centered immaturity (I'm not saying that younger men in general are self absorbed and immature; only that I and everyone I knew was) we can happily play and not get possessive. Likewise, women tend to hit their sexual peak after their 30's (and keep on climbing YES!) and most of them really come into their own and start expanding their sexual horizons.

Of course, I am now an old fart, so I'm probably out of touch with the sexual peccadilloes of you darn youngsters.

They are both fucking the exact same women.

(10-02-2018 11:56 PM)Bonecrkr Wrote:  They are both fucking the exact same women.

Need a rim-shot icon to follow the quip

I wanted to bring up another point... While I've stated paying for sex leaves you with a dull brain (no game required... You've got the money she's got the time), the traditional methods of ONS or dating etc also leave one predisposed to constant rejections, sometimes minute sometimes extreme, and can lead to mental and emotional strain in extreme cases. Cutting your losses after a brief chase is one thing, but some women can be extremely manipulative and lead you on into a longer chase with no gain in sight... Sure smart men may see this , but some extremely beautiful women are even smarter at disguise.

Look at Johnny Depp's divorce from his wife... That's an example. A man worth $400 million is now (I believe) worth $200 million today. If that doesn't fuck someone's emotional health up I don't know what does. He thought he didn't have to act out in REAL life because she was inexperienced in acting compared to him and wouldn't be able to "outwit" or manipulate him... But look in the end even a man that smart lost the battle to an actress with 10% of his experience.


What I'm saying is in love and war there are no rules. When your paying for sex there is -- at least you know what you're getting.