(11-25-2015 2:34 PM)dsouza Wrote:  Thundr seems like a class act.. In fact even in cust service when I had complained I couldn't use imprint because of Androstadienone he brewed up a batch of SLIDE for me just so I could try an alternative. He goes beyond his job requirements.

Carry on...

Have you tried SLIDE yet? If so, how are you liking it? I'm beyond interested in its effects.

(11-25-2015 10:57 AM)moe Wrote:  Apex does not make L2K, and they are not alpha dreams customer service point It's funny that thundr forwarded the question to Chris

M.

thanks for pointing this out I did make a mistake, but just here on PT
I indeed wrote to Alpha-Dreams and asked about L2K

just checked my emails to make sure


Would be cool however if Thundr were to expand his role

(11-25-2015 2:34 PM)dsouza Wrote:  Thundr seems like a class act.. In fact even in cust service when I had complained I couldn't use imprint because of Androstadienone he brewed up a batch of SLIDE for me just so I could try an alternative. He goes beyond his job requirements.

Carry on...

Wow that sounds cool! Hope everything worked out great.

I did find the following (either on PT or on pheromonetalk)

Quote:TAH low dose 2.5mcg+TAL -> depression-free alternative to Androstadienone

Hope that this could be an alternative

In before Eks:

P96 works as alternative to A-1 (but his words, not necessarily mine).

(11-22-2015 2:15 PM)RTBoss Wrote:  Just some unwarranted advice. When someone asks your age up front like that, it's a qualifying question. If you say the wrong answer, you're out. You can come back from it, but as far as her brain's database of acceptable age ranges, you may have just disqualified yourself - 'mones or not.

I'd keep it general, in response:

Her: "How old are you?"
You: ::chuckle:: "Too old for you."
Her: "How do you know?"
You: Slight shrug, switch the subject. Or just, "Hey, I'm gonna go ::insert flimsy reason to leave here:: Talk to you a little later, ok?"

When you say too old for you, you're telling her that you've pre-selected HER to be out of consideration. Only high-value/status people do that (though I suppose sulky beta's pre-disqualify themselves by the way this line is delivered).

I couldn't have said it any better RTBoss. that's the best way to go about it.

New Results

Hi, everyone,
First of all I thank everyone who helped me with suggestions. I really appreciate it.

Friday night, formal dinner with university students,ages 19-23, event that brings together univ. students and mentally disabled people. [it was really nice, I learned a lot from being there, really worth it, the people I met who were mentally disabled were soo nice, such great people]
2xShine, 2xIH, dabs of Gucci Guilty on the backs of both hands
Overall impression: good, positive

First of all I should say that I first wore only dabs of Gucci Guilty for Men on the backs of both hands and I did self-effects (confidence and masculinity) A good women-friend of mine who is older and who is in on the mones called Gucci Guilty and aphrodisiac (her words). One girl approached me and introduced herself to me. Don't know if because of the perfume or because of my altered behavior or another reason.
Then went on to put on the above mentioned combination, with additional Gucci Guilty on the backs of both hands.
At the semi-formal dinner when I was walking by look for a seat, 2 girls called me and said several times that I should sit with them, even though there was not too much space. They also made an effort to get a chair from a different room for me and insisted that they do it and I should sit there. They also told me that I could sit in the large seat at the head of the table (they said something like 'you can sit in the Boss-seat') Longer story,but I didn't really want to take that seat and I sat opposite of them and next to a nice guy who used to be a little reserved although not too much and opened up more. Positive interactions with the two girls where I was sitting.
There was another girl who I had met before who seems to respond well to the combination of Shine and IH because she responded very well socially the first time I wore it and also on this time. (that evening (friday) it was almost like I didn't even have time to talk to her because of the other interactions)

The girl who I mentioned in the report where I wore A314B spray and who responded really positively and showed a major IOI when I was saying good-bye, had earlier made an effort to say 'Hi' to me over the heads of many people before I put on mones.
At the dinner she made a bee-line to me, said how are you,blablabla (how do you like this evening,great,right?) blablabla, then said that she was on the way to tell something to her girlfriend who was further away. Right (she didn't say it in a dismissive way. I just found it quite funny that she made a beeline to me to speak with her girlfriend and just 'happened' to meet me )
Don't know what exactly happened in the mean-time. I was speculating that she had been overwhelmed by the A314B spray and had to understand her feelings and (I had read in a post about wearing Xist for resetting), I had the plan to use Shine and IH in a similar way.

Then I was sitting outside with someone and a younger women, blonde, (can't really tell her age) joined, sat down opposite of me. Another guy came, tried to impress her, but in a sense failed (I'm not saying that his resume is not good, but he didn't play his cards well) because what he was saying lacked substance and was contradictory. He also left (gave up, I guess, prematurely in my opinion). The guy wanted her attention. I was quiter but I was saying things that had serious substance. She ended up wanting to hear what I wanted to say and because a little annoyed by other people talking (she said 'I want to hear what he has to say') So I spoke with her about her future plans and I encouraged her, and maybe I had more in common with her than the other guy (who might have had a slightly better resume,even though that can be a matter of opinion but he didn't play his cards well and he was also a little full of himself and wanted to impress whereas I was focussed more on being positive to her and letting her discover me
So I continued talking with her, asked her if she was coming to an event the next day, first she said 'I don't know I don't feel that well' then said she would be there several times. She also said at the end with a little emotion "It was wonderful meeting you!"

Next day, Saturday 3PM-7PM
Venue: Public park
3xShine (2 on the right side of the throat, 1 on the base of the troat/below adams apple), 1 IH on right wrist, a number of larger dabs of Gucci Guilty on backs of both hands
Overall impression: definitely positive

At first I was talking with a guy, friendlier than usual, but still normal.
Later I approached the girl where I had not given the best answer to her age-question. Short exchange, was ok but could have been a little friendlier, but still ok.
Then moved to a group of girls, one of which was one of the girls who told me to sit with them (I didn't recognize her, she looked differently), some small talk her her but less enthusiastic as the evening before. She also wore a dress that was plain in comparison and I think she didn't wear makeup.
There was another girl though next to me, who introduced herself to me. She is a more fiery person, like a latina, a little hot-blooded. See below for more about her. We had a nice exchange, quite positive really and we were walking to a different area where the larger meeting was taking place. We had some chemistry.
Two other girls introduced themselves to me.
Then the blonde girl who I had met the evening before approached me and we talked, it was nice. This time I wasn't mentioning her interests and plans for the reason that I thought that it might be too much to talk about it all the time. Maybe a mistake and I should have spoken about it. But she continued to tell me about herself, also making positive mentioning of my interests. She was quite open,unusually open. She told me of intimate views on a number of somewhat controversial subjects (I actually respect her opinions, even though I may only agree about 90%).
We were walking to a different place where there was food. She told me more of her opinions and other things.
At the place where food was (in a small pagoda) there was a different girl who was sitting on a low wall and who started talking with me, what my name is, pretty much about myself, what my plans are... She repeatedly told me to do sit down but there really was no space at all. There might have actually been next to another person who was disabled who she was with, but on that spot there was salad dressing and I couldn't sit down there. She said 'maybe with a napkin!' She really wanted me to sit down with her
All of this very shortly after I had been speaking to the blonde girl and she went to a different spot on the buffet to get food. the blonde girl stayed there turning her side to us.
Later, a different event. Blonde girl wanted to sit by herself..ok
So I found a different spot, ended up sitting next to a girl. Spoke to her with confidence, then a guy came back who had apparently sat there before and really cockblocked me (not too bad but what annoyed me was his attitude. He pointed to a spot far away and said there is a spot over there. I might have called him out on it but didn't want to ruin the event and given the number of girls who had approached me I didn' care too much. I was then sitting next to a disabled person [totally nice and that itself was an experience. Totally nice guy! Really big heart. Had a good understanding with him. Would be great to see him again]
The women who I had sat next to before looked again and again and wanted to talk with me, but she was 3 seats away. The cockblocking guy was abrasive to people in general. Strange guy.
Then there was a little dancing and the hot-blooded girl was standing before me. She waved and told me I should join her (and her friends). At one point I stroked over her upper arm. Also after that. She repeatedly made her butt touch me (on my leg and arm). Was nice I told her "I may be repeating myself but you should definitely come tomorrow [to the event the next day]". Some more stroking her arm affectionately (possible the last time was too one time too much but never know)
At the end when people were going home, I wanted to talk to blonde girl about contact information. She was engaged in a conversation with the disabled person she was with and I could tell it was a serious conversation. She said she would be at the gate. I asked her "do you want me to wait?" and she said yes.
So I waited at the gate, spoke with a really nice guy. Behind us hot-blooded girl with two girlfriends and they were facing us. Looking back I don't think that they were waiting for anyone or anything. They were just standing there. weird. Didn't talk to hot-blooded girl. Maybe she was a expecting this though... I had thought that by saying that she should come the next day and she saying repeatedly that she will come everything was already set.
She might have been much more spontaneous that I had expected. (I mean, like really, she can't wait one more day? / Waiting 1 day is too much?) I would appreciate your opinions. What do you think? What were your experiences
I actually waited there to meet blonde girl. Eventually the three girls,including hot-blooded girl left by themselves (this is why I suspect that hot-blooded girl was waiting for me to approach her again) and the I was walking a little with the guy I was speaking with (he was also mentally challenged)
Anyway, blonde girl disappeared. I found her later about 50 yards away having an emotional conversation with the disabled person she was with. Another women said something to blonde girl. And right after that I asked her for contact info [I knew that she lost her phone recently because she had said it the day before] and she gave me her email address and I wrote to her yesterday.
She said with emtion something in the sense of 'it was really nice meeting you'

Sunday 8PM-9:30PM
Venue: University, lecture with semi-formal meeting before and after the lecture, mainly girls ages 19-23
0.5 Spray MX353, 1 Spray IG, 1 Spray Shine (all on throat), dabs of Gucci Guilty on backs of both hands, applied about 15 minutes before the event
Mixed results

So I wanted to try something new. Someone had recommended to me to use MX353 and IG (he emphasized that IG was important for it work). The original recommendation was 2xMX353 and 0.5 IG but I thought that may be too strong for the target group.
I used half a spray of MX353 but positioning a piece of paper between the TOGO and my skin. I seemed to have a imed correctly. I asked an older female friend of mine who is in on the mones what she thought and she said that it was quite strong and I only use a little of it and I need to be careful, under no circumstances apply more.
There is one more thing about the MX353 TOGO that I discovered only this evening. This was a TOGO that had had leakage in the past because the cap was not screwed on tightly, and about 60% of it had evaporated over time until I undestood what was happening and screwed on the top really tight. So I don't know if the composition / the ratio of mones had changed somewhat over time...
But I wanted to try it anyway and thought that the 1xIG and 1xShine might buffer any unbalanced mones.

At the event I was greeted by two guys who I had gotten known over the last events. They were friendly but soon moved away (they created more space between us) and after that moved to different places and different people.
I passed a few girls, one of them said instinctively Hi (I didn't speak with her before)
Many girls might have been intimidated, though not in an extreme way.
One of the guys who had moved away earlier approached me again and we were talking. Then a young women from England, good looking, approached me more or less directly and introduced herself. She was really influenced by the mones (I guess). She was trembling when she was speaking with me, pretty much all over her body (head, arms, everything). Never saw this before I think. I guess the mones (in particular none ?) were having an effect on her.
While talking with her and the guy who I met first that evening and another guy, the guy who I met first that evening shook my hand for no apparent reason.. ..no idea, maybe IG?

After that I spoke with the girl who seemed to respond stongly to A314B spray who I wrote about in the first post (attraction and one huge IOI but also intimidated) and in post #35 (friday evening semi-formal event, approached me), we said 'Hi' at the same time. Standing next to her was the girl who had instictively said Hi.
The girl who had been attracted by A314B seemed to be somewhat attracted and the conversation went positively I think. I told her good things about myself and how our conversation had helped me advance professionally and she seemed happy about it. At the same time I think that they were also intimidated. Both girls were moving further away than normal. They may have been standing 2-3 or perhaps even 4 feet away. Again, this is not normally the case. In fact I don't know if I've ever had a conversation of that sort with this interpersonal distance. I guess they were intimidated by the none.

I went inside the hall and met some male older acquaintances. The mones seemed to cause them to move away..
I said Hi to a friend because I had to say Hi to him (I was afraid that he might move away too). He is a really good guy, a bit shy and definitely genuine. I was sitting opposite of him 2 feet distance and he asked me about how everything went with something that I had to do. He acted normally, somewhat concerned, not very light-headed (even thought that may have been his mood that day). I noticed that he developed 2 red lines below each eye. Strange. I left with an excuse because I didn't know what was going on.
By and large, people were moving away from me. Not too nice.
There was one person who I know was a professional sold ier for some years, self-assured guy with dominance and authority, but really allright as a person and a fair guy. He approached me to shake my hand and he asked how I'm doing. He went on on his way. Don't know if he was repelled by me or not, but his behavior was normal, unlike that of the other male people. On the other hand, he didn't stay long in my proximity.
Later guy who I met first that evening spoke to me shortly, this time friendly. To be honest, I'm starting to wonder if he is gay...
The only male who was positively (more or less) indifferent of scent was a man, approximately 50yo, faculty professor who I was sitting next to who seemed to be very absorbed in the lecture.

I noticed that the girl where I had not given the best answer to her age-question responded in a positive way. She had her attention on me. This was the same girl who showed interest, asked me how old I am, I said 30 and that was the beginning of the end of the conversation. After that she did not really speak with me, except that on this saturday (post #36) there was a short exchange with her, that could have been friendlier but was ok.
This time she was interested again. We had a little small talk, definitely a big improvement.
After the lecture when people were going home I casually said 'bye' to her and (I don't remember whether or not she said that it was nice to see me) but she definitely said with some positive emotion that "I'll see you next time"

In the hall before the lecture I approached the young women from England again. I actually had not been sure that she was from England because she hardly had any accent. I asked her if she was from England and I said that I also lived in England for a short time [which is true. Also two cousins of mine used to live there]. She asked me where I was living and to be honest, I wasn't prepared for this question. When I was living in England (which was a mistake alltogether) I was living in a crappy area. Perhaps not the worst place but really not too good an area.
I told her it's a longer story and I didn't know the place before I moved there [which is the truth] and I told her the name of the place and it was also as if I had given the wrong answer. Almost all of her attention was gone immediately. I went on to talk about my cousins, too very little avail (it seemed) and then I asked her if she knew some prominent people in student life there (who I do know) and that seemed to get her attention a little, but at that point another girl asked her something and the girl from England was basically not paying me any attention. I then moved on.

Interesting how there can be such a change from highly interested and (aroused/excited in a way?) to abruptly ending a conversation.
Have you guys experienced this?

When people were going, one guy who was in charge of the events showed people (including me) where they kept their drinks,plastic cups,etc. and the young women from England happened to be there as well. She didn't seem to be pay any attention to, neither positive nor negative. I tried to say something to her, basically got no reaction.
Is this OD?

Well that is my report, bit long but I wanted to tell you all the details. Thank you all very much for all your advice and all your input.

Yeah it sounds like you OD'ed. The ghosting and flight reactions are telltale. I wouldn't use the Gucci Guilty as it sounds like it's loaded with aggressive pheromones that are unbalanced.

(11-29-2015 6:09 PM)NP17 Wrote:  Yeah it sounds like you OD'ed. The ghosting and flight reactions are telltale. I wouldn't use the Gucci Guilty as it sounds like it's loaded with aggressive pheromones that are unbalanced.

Thank you NP17 for the insights. I suspected Gucci Guilty to contain pheromones when I first wore it .
It definitely had self-effects (confidence and manliness)
This might also explain something that I had experienced the day before when I only wore Shine,Honesty and Gucci Guilty on the back of my hands.
One of the girls that had introduced herself to me (let's call her P) and I spoke about what we do. I said something to her that may be interpreted as a weakness but also as a strength.
I said that I regret not having learned some things that she is learning and I asked her for advice/tried to consult with her how I should do it.
I know that objectively that is not a bad thing at all.
But perhaps in her mind (she defines herself a lot by it) I was associated with people she would not consider as potential partners.
I actually have substancial knowledge in that area, perhaps more than she in some respects. But maybe she put me in a different category.
And maybe her reaction was not conscious and heavily influenced by emotion induced by mones (and here I suspect Gucci Guilty).
Her reaction was similar to that of the young woman from England. She kind of stopped the conversation, continued to stand next to me but looked in a different direction (not in a rude way).

I then asked her something about the place where she was from and about someone I knew who was from there who I greatly respect. It turned out that he was a close associate of her brother-in-law. She was surprised and the conversation was ok,
then I said that when I walk to the gym I sometimes listen to lectures of that person I mentioned [which is true]. (perhaps that was also in her eyes lowering my status because she might have thought that I was learning something that she already knew [with all due respect to her, I have might doubts about that, but I suspect that her thinking was not totally logical at that point]. She said that it is good that I listen to lectures from that person and that I should continue doing so (she said in an encouraging way). She then basically stopped the conversation and even withdrew physically, stepping back about 4-5 feet and speaking with a female friend, facing away from my direction even though that was direction of the event in which people were looking in general.
I said something to her (really mild and benign statement that was reasonable) and she just acknowledged shortly like 'yeah that's true' and looked for that duration in my direction and continued her conversation with her female friend.

Her reaction was similar to that of the young women from England, although much less well-marked, and not as extreme as with the young women from England.
In both cases the women approached me and the interaction was positive
(with the young women from England the extra none from MX353 may also have played a role)
up to the point where I said something that was a weakness in general in their world (where they were from).
It didn't seem to matter that if they would have thought about it those really aren't weaknesses in that specific case, but
it seems like their understanding of status was very non-cognitive and perhaps emotional, not logical, and they seemed to respond more to 'buzzwords' (lived in a bad area, below my league) without even understanding the context of what I was saying.
Both withdrew after that and there was OD / ghosting after that, even though much less marked in the case of the women P (mentioned above), than in the case of the young women from England.

It cannot be just the quantity of mones worn, because the interaction was quite positive at first (and they were the ones approaching).
Everything changed after making statements that might have -by themselves- been considered status-lowering.

I remember reading that several people wrote that OD had a lot to do with being incongruent, even though there was a lot of discussion about it. If I remember correctly some people said that above a certain dose of mones there is OD regardless of behavior/congruency, and other people said that they can get away with any dose of mones (including none) if they act congruently.
[skin chemistry/natural mone production may also play a role I think]

I do suspect that here congruency was an issue, and I do suspect that it had a lot to do with Gucci Guilty.
[although I can at this point not rule out that it couldn't have happened with a Shine/Honesty combination by itself]

That is of course only with regards to Gucci Guilty and about congruency.

I wanted to ask you guys how to deal with previous OD and ghosting.
My idea would be to use 'comfort' mones like Shine and IH (I've also read about Xist)
they also worked well for me.

What do you think about the young women from England?