Good report. Everyone has an epiphany on this one. "Oh wow it's real!" Lol
My advice- Don't put pure Androstadienone on the back of your hands. I did that once, and man was that a terrible day. The Androstadienone had me as depressed as you can get. It's in my journal. . . somewhere at the end. Before that day I kinda thought Androstadienone depression was a myth or a phero folk tale. Boy was I wrong. Now I only apply my Androstadienone to the back of my neck, with the rare exception of my elbow pits.
Never heard of cohesion causing it though. Interesting.
Perhaps the answer is to apply to your shirt?
(06-06-2013 7:32 AM)mammoth Wrote: [ -> ]Perhaps the answer is to apply to your shirt?
Not really. As long as you inhale it, you're screwed. Like thunder said, wanting an ex back mode is no fun at all. I don't want to live that moment ever again.
I used it a few years ago with no issue, but I tried again recently and experienced a noticeably bad attitude by the end of the night. both times I began the night in a slightly cranky/depressed mood and by the end of the night was uncharacteristically worse. I'm wondering if it might depend on your base mood rather than absolutely inducing it.
(06-05-2013 9:30 PM)alphavitea Wrote: [ -> ]Hax uses dienonene in a lot of its products and the levels all seem tolerable.
I have tried HAX's C4, M512, Element9, Element9+O and ElementX. Yes, they don't seem to give the same negative effects like Certo or LllK V2(Didn't realise there's dienone when I bought it).
I think I will try more of HAX's products and see how I can find my sweet spot with them.
(06-05-2013 10:59 PM)eyeofra Wrote: [ -> ]Good report. Everyone has an epiphany on this one. "Oh wow it's real!" Lol
My advice- Don't put pure Androstadienone on the back of your hands. I did that once, and man was that a terrible day. The Androstadienone had me as depressed as you can get. It's in my journal. . . somewhere at the end. Before that day I kinda thought Androstadienone depression was a myth or a phero folk tale. Boy was I wrong. Now I only apply my Androstadienone to the back of my neck, with the rare exception of my elbow pits.
Never heard of cohesion causing it though. Interesting.
I'm actually an interesting case where Androstadienone doesn't hit me as hard as cohesion does (depression wise). I use Androstadienone instead of Cohesion now.
There is a study done on androstadienone and social interactions
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Ado...0062499#s4
" In the control group, high levels of baseline cortisol resulted in an increase –or in most cases, a smaller decrease- in testosterone levels, while in the androstadienone receiving group, a high baseline level of cortisol resulted in a slightly larger decrease in testosterone levels."
another interseting excerpt;
"Thirdly, we hypothesized that androstadienone would increase male cortisol levels, similarly to women [7]. This hypothesis was not supported by our findings. However, an interaction between baseline levels of cortisol and androstadienone exposure was found, hinting that androstadienone exposure might possibly affect the change in participants' testosterone levels during the experiment."
So it would seem androstadienone doesn't directly increase levels of cortisol - but rather affects the relationship between cortisol and testosterone in the male body, i.e. the more cortisol you have in your system as a baseline - the more your testosterone is decreased after exposure to androstadienone.
(06-08-2013 9:23 AM)velinxs Wrote: [ -> ]So it would seem androstadienone doesn't directly increase levels of cortisol - but rather affects the relationship between cortisol and testosterone in the male body, i.e. the more cortisol you have in your system as a baseline - the more your testosterone is decreased after exposure to androstadienone.
Which supports the view that many of us took on Androstadienone , namely that if you're feeling slightly stressed or lethargic before applying the Androstadienone then the resulting "depression" is far worse than if you were feeling on top of the world and applied it.
It's great when the hunches we have are verified by science, makes me feel more confident in the conclusions we reach using all our members combined anecdotal evidence. +1 for team Pherotruth!
Hey velinxs,
First off, awesome link. It's always good to get some hard science in the forums. Thanks and repped.
Some interesting/odd portions of the study;
Quote:Androstadienone and the control stimulus did not differ in their perceived pleasantness or intensity
Odd. I've gotten bad reactions from high dose androstadienone. I guess there's less of an issue at lower doses. Good to know.
Quote:Thus, in the present study, males with high salivary testosterone levels made larger offers but also accepted smaller offers than males with lower testosterone levels.
...
Thirdly, we hypothesized that androstadienone would increase male cortisol levels, similarly to women [7]. This hypothesis was not supported by our findings.
...
However, high testosterone males have earlier been reported to be more likely to reject low offers as Responders [35]. Nevertheless, in our study testosterone levels correlated negatively with the minimum acceptable offers. This may be due to differences in the experimental setup, cultural differences, or the fact that Burnham's [35] participants were graduate students who had actually studied microeconomics and game theory, while our sample was more varied.
...
This suggests an interesting phenomenon: low status individuals do not treat each other fairly, while high status individuals are fair to both low and high status individuals.
Also interesting.
I'd like to play devil's advocate for two seconds, here. Salivary testosterone provides an incomplete picture of an individual's true androgen profile, and we need to keep that in mind when interpreting these results. Testosterone that is bound to Sex Hormone Binding Globulin will
not show up in saliva. Individuals getting sufficient aerobic exercise or under less stress, or on a low fat/calorie diet are going to have more SHBG. In other words, all things being equal, healthy high-status men will have less salivary testosterone relative to total testosterone than those who are stressed or over-fed or under-exercised. Unbound testosterone (which is what saliva tests of testosterone measure) is also going to be converted to DHT more rapidly in some individuals than others, and DHT wasn't even measured in this study. Low salivary T is certainly useful in some clinical applications, like diagnosing hypogonadism. And testing saliva is a heck of a lot more convenient than a blood draw. But we should remember the limitations of the testing method when interpreting this experiment.
Don't know if this fits in here..
But yesterday I wore Ascend for the first time and for the first 30-40 minutes I felt tense, anxious and really messed up.
It passed then and for the rest of the time at work I felt calm, a little bliss and got some noticable hits