I wanted to test this more before I posted about it. But I haven't had as much time or as many opportunities as I'd like. I have good reason to believe a molecule in blue lotus extract is useful as a pheromone.

Blue lotus was used as incense at social gatherings in ancient egypt (and, to a lesser extent, today.) Blue lotus contains various aporphine derivatives, a class of light-weight lipophilic molecules which tend to either activate or block the dopamine type 1 and type 2 receptors inside the body depending on their shape. D1 and D2 receptors also play a role in human olfaction, so smelling the a aporphine derivative which activates the dopamine receptors in the body may very well have an effect. One aporphine derivative is apomorphine (which is not in any way analagous to morphine in its effect. It got its name because it was synthesized from morphine at one point.) apomorphine has been used as a drug some time ago, still has some clinical uses, particularly in veterinary medicine, and is a dopamine receptor (D1 and D2) agonist.

In short, apomorphine (or maybe one of its cousins) looks like a pheromone with some novel activity.

In my personal experiments, blue lotus extract applied to my body has produced a sort of silly, philosophical, laid back sort of verbal introspection between myself and my wife as well as improving things for her in a romantic sense. (I don't want to be too explicit in a public forum, but feel free to PM)

From wikipedia; "(apomorphine) effects desire and is not meant to produce an overall effect as say Viagra which works on blood flow. In those males who have problems with desire as opposed to generalized erectile dysfunction it works as expected." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apomorphine

As mentioned earlier, I don't think the benefits are limited to males.

Nuciferine is the most commonly mentioned constituent of blue lotus, but it's a dopamine receptor antagonist. This suggests to me that some portions of blue lotus may be counteracting its desired effect, and would benefit from purification.

"Injectable apomorphine is still about the best way to induce vomiting in dogs. But most veterinary drug distributors don't carry it any more. "
Re: Apomorphine for erectile dysfunction; "The therapeutic dose is in the range of 1 to 10 milligram apomorphine. "http://tongkatali-mexico.com/bulk54365.htm

It also seems to have an effect on sleep and dreaming. It may be helpful to make sure you wash anything that you apply it to after you're done using it. I'm not sure if a hamper of clothes with blue lotus extract on it has been disrupting my sleep.

Chirality seems to be significant for apomorphine, with the R form being biologically active.

From one post;

"Since I was ordering from California, I think I also recall that Apomorphine is considered Controlled in the state of CA. "
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=587244


Since historically (and presently) it's been taken orally to produce drug-like effects I'm worried about talking about it publicly in such direct terms. Increased use = more regulation. It does seem like it might have some abuse potential, and is already used as a drug. Problems with the stuff increase the likelihood of the government stepping in. I don't think phermonal use is anything like drug use and shouldn't be a problem, but I hesitated to post this since I don't want to promote that association.

Apomorphine does not fit the description of a pheromone.

Further, dopamine receptor agonists have no relationship to pheromones in terms of mechanism of action. Dopamine agonists such as D1 & D2 agonists do not cause any pleasurable sensations at all, they cause nausea and trigger hallucinations which mimic schizophrenia. They are good for restless legs, phantom sensations, and sufferers of Parkinson's.

Pheromones work by triggering special receptors in the main and accessory olfactory bulb, which then trigger an action potential along "nerve 0," which is believed to connect to the hypothalamus. What happens after the signal is conducted and terminated at the end of nerve zero, no one really knows.

My speculation is that the majority of pheromone like effects are due the action of oxytocin-like expression in key parts of the mind. I also believe pheromones may indirectly excite glutamate neurons and perhaps sigma receptors as well.

I do not believe dopamine plays a role in the effect of pheromones. If dopamine were involved there would be cravings which are formed from the use of pheromones - I've never heard of this happening. The dopamine theory therefore does not fit very well. This is all speculation from what I know of pharmacology and brain neural networks, and the effect of varying levels of monoamine neurotransmitters (dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine) in the synapse.

Read about nerve zero, very interesting stuff...

I have blue lotus and i soak it in wine for about a week. Good to take with a Girlfriend or wife, gets the juices flowing. But its different..... not sure how to describe it. It can make one sleepy and/or almost "stoned" to the point where the last thing you want to do is interact with others.

It is however. not a sensation i would want to invoke on others through properties of phermones.

(02-23-2012 2:36 AM)Cman888 Wrote:  I have blue lotus and i soak it in wine for about a week. Good to take with a Girlfriend or wife, gets the juices flowing. But its different..... not sure how to describe it. It can make one sleepy and/or almost "stoned" to the point where the last thing you want to do is interact with others.

It is however. not a sensation i would want to invoke on others through properties of phermones.

Ever try it as a cologne in low doses? I did get a sleepy effect from it. Wasn't sure if it was that or another thing I had in my hamper that also could have caused it.

I really wish people would stop comparing dopamine agonists or controlled substances or addictive drugs to pheromones, or suggesting it might be a pheromone. Where's the connection? -- There is none..

Taking shots in the dark like this within the realm of pharmacology, without really understanding the dynamics of how the brain works and how we're wired, is guaranteed to miss the target 99% of the time...

Oh, and it also raises a big bright red flag for anyone who works for health & human services, when they see this kind of stuff. They will use your 'theory' and others like it to one day attack the legitimacy of pheromones, all for no good reason.

P L E A S E stop comparing pheromones to drugs people! It's nonsense, it's baseless, and it looks really bad for the industry...

(02-23-2012 2:44 AM)wiserd Wrote:  Ever try it as a cologne in low doses? I did get a sleepy effect from it. Wasn't sure if it was that or another thing I had in my hamper that also could have caused it.

No, and i wouldn't.


From what i understand, blue lotus has no pheromone properties and its not meant to be used as such.

But yes, it did make me sleepy, its more, like you said " introspective".

But i agree with chris, there is no relation between pheromones and these substances. Two completely different "items", so to speak with no relation.

There is nothing to compare.

Yes, i have recently bought some dry lotus petals for making some tea, and wondered about using it as a mone as well, lol! Forgive us, Chris, we're crazy for experimentations.

I've heard about the Egyptian uses of it, as a tea or soaked in wine. Both were used in orgies, as far as i remember. They say it's tea is excellent for meditation, that's why I've bought.

By the way, if anyone of you guys has the recipe of the "Egyptian ayahuasca" tea they used for transcendental experiences, I'd be very grateful.

I know it's Blue Lotus, Opium Flower and Mandrake, i just don't know the ratios.

I totally A G R E E with Chris.

Blue Lotus extract = pheromones wtf @@ ITS FROM A F*KN PLANT.

I think Chris is right at many points!

It's an absolute nonsense to test caffeine, ephedrine, morphine and also apomorphine! Those are no endogene substances, so they are not receptor specific enough for working as a pheromone! Just have a look at the used dosages for effects!

Endogene substances are working more specific and in way lower dosages! So don't use pharmaceuticals as pheromones they won't work!

If you are making research for new pheromones, make research on neurotransmitters and neurosteroids!


The reason why the smell of coffee will raise your vitality is the olfactory anchor, and so with many other substances!

(02-23-2012 7:49 AM)XPX Wrote:  I think Chris is right at many points!

It's an absolute nonsense to test caffeine, ephedrine, morphine and also apomorphine! Those are no endogene substances, so they are not receptor specific enough for working as a pheromone! Just have a look at the used dosages for effects!

Endogene substances are working more specific and in way lower dosages! So don't use pharmaceuticals as pheromones they won't work!

If you are making research for new pheromones, make research on neurotransmitters and neurosteroids!


The reason why the smell of coffee will raise your vitality is the olfactory anchor, and so with many other substances!

No offense to anybody but most people don't even know what the hell are these ^__^.