I definitely got the 'sleepy' effect from smelling it, which I hated. I should have been more careful about leaving the clothes I'd sprayed it on lying around in my room. However I'm hoping we can counteract that effect if we figure out what caused it. We're likely dealing with a mix of chemicals here. How do we know if the one causing the desirable result is the same as the one causing the undesirable result?

And if they are the same chemical but not the same receptor perhaps we could mix in an antagonist to shape the effect.

I realize that this may not be an ideal mix yet, particularly in regards to the 'sleepy' effect. That's part of why I asked for help.

@FlySoHigh - beautiful hieroglyphics you found, there. ;-)

I'm still trying to figure this out. Please bear with me. It seems that nuciferine and apomorphine, both reputed to be found in blue lotus, have some mutually contradictory mechanisms of action. I wish I could test both separately. I'm considering... maybe I had things backwards? Maybe it's the nuciferine's inhibitory action on dopamine receptors in the olfactory bulb which is responsible for the observed effects?

Dopamine is produced endogenously (in the body) and dopamine agonists seem to have the capacity to downregulate GABAergic activity and possibly other olfactory activity as well. Would this mean that dopamine agonists had anti-pheromonal activity and dopamine antagonists had pro-pheromonal activity? Perhaps a dopamine antagonist like nuciferine would increase the effects of alpha Androstenol... or even all pheromones? ... and potentially their scent as well in those who could smell them?

Quote:The olfactory bulb of mammals contains a large population of dopaminergic interneurones within the glomerular layer.

In the mammalian olfactory bulb (OB) dopaminergic (DA) neurones constitute a fraction of the cells occupying the most external (glomerular) layer. In this region, populated by three types of interneurones, periglomerular (PG) cells, short-axon cells and external tufted (ET) cells (Halász, 1990) – often collectively referred to as juxtaglomerular cells – an estimated 10% of the neurones in adulthood are positive for tyrosine hydroxylase (TH), the rate-limiting enzyme for dopamine synthesis.


As indicated by an abundant literature, dopamine is inhibitory in the olfactory bulb, acting primarily on presynaptic D2 receptors located in the olfactory nerve terminal...Within this framework, dopamine might play a central role in the processing of olfactory information by acting at two levels: it would control the input of the sensory signal, and it would modulate the mechanism of GABAergic inhibition

http://jp.physoc.org/content/564/2/501.full

Marketing hype backs up this idea;

Quote:Not only is Blue Lotus Absolute Oil known for it's own unique effects, it is reportedly a powerful potentiator as well. Potentiators (such as Wild Dagga or Three Lotus Paste) act as enhancers to other products, increasing and intensifying the effects.
http://www.shamansgarden.com/p-1-blue-lo...ifera.aspx

Quote:... provides anatomical support for a wide range of actions of dopamine in the glomerular circuits through presynaptic mechanisms mediated by D2 receptors. These actions would include: (i) modulation of the glutamate release from the olfactory axons to the dendrites of mitral/tufted cells and periglomerular cells; (ii) modulation of glutamatergic synapses from the dendrites of mitral/tufted cells to the dendrites of periglomerular cells and (iii) modulation of the neurotransmission from a subset of GABAergic/dopaminergic periglomerular cells to mitral/tufted cells.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16190891

Quote:Both Nymphaea caerulea and Nelumbo nucifera contain the alkaloids nuciferine and aporphine.[3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nymphaea_caerulea

Quote:Nuciferine is an alkaloid found within the plants Nymphaea caerulea and Nelumbo nucifera. It has a profile of action associated with dopamine receptor blockade. It induces catalepsy, it inhibits spontaneous motor activity, conditioned avoidance response, amphetamine toxicity and stereotypy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuciferine

(A bit off-topic, but interesting. Is olfactory dopamine agonism a potentially non-invasive medical diagnostic tool?)

Quote:Loss of dopamine receptors in the olfactory bulb of patients with Alzheimer's disease (1990)

...Moreover, in vivo detection of bulbar dopamine receptors might in the future provide a diagnostic tool for the early detection of senile dementia of the Alzheimer type.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/art...939090833W

~ 5 mcg of neno in a spray does a reasonable job of minimizing the sleep inducing side effect of blue lotus scent.

How are the experiments going?

(02-27-2012 6:45 AM)Fly So Hi Wrote:  How are the experiments going?

I wrote a reply, but it got eaten. urg.

Okay, long story short;

1. I need to keep clothes which have my mixes on them in plastic bags and not lying out during the night or I wake up on my own at 6am. This stuff seriously messes with sleep cycle.

2. I really do think that very low doses of lotus, balanced with neno to remove some of the sleepy effect, could have a beneficial effect on other pheromones. The whole room seemed impacted by a mix I was wearing. Considering that, the quantity used was probably too high. But on the downside one of my friends who is likely on a drug that potentiates GABA activity slept for about an hour, even with a high dose of neno. So that's a negative. A lotus mix is going to put some people to sleep.

3. At a lower dose of lotus (just barely enough to alter the clarity of the mix) + a-dienone, Wife certainly still responds positively in a physical sense though her verbal/psychological responses don't seem impacted by lotus at these doses. And if nothing else, that's noteworthy to me.

Great! Sounds like one of those extremely potent molecules, but in the sense you gotta use minute quantities of it to have a favourable response.