(12-23-2012 5:44 PM)wiserd Wrote:  Oh, I agree. "Interest" is not the same as sexual desire for women, and a lot of men conflate the two things. (Wishful thinking?) Women often use 'flirting gestures' on other women to express 'interest,' even absent sexual desire.

Also, sexual desire is not the same as a willingness to act on sexual desire.

LOL
Ok. Just checking. Still learning the "man speak" here in the forum. I don't know whether some of the guys are over thinking everything or if it's just that I don't think about everything enough All I know for sure is that it must,at least on occasion, be exhausting trying to sort out perception from reality

Maybe I've been married too long, lol, but a smack on the ass, a wink and a nod from either one of us to the other and - game on! When did attraction and a good romp become so complicated and tricky?


But, back on topic...
You had mentioned above that ~+25mcg is a high dose and that long term use seemed to take its toll on your health/immune system. Do you recall, are you talking days or weeks?

I have Love Potion DHEAS at approx 12.5mcg per spray and only rarely go higher than 2-3 sprays, usually I apply to my hair or clothes and very rarely straight on skin because I've read that it can cause breakouts. I don't use that daily by any means but a lot of the blends I like have DHEAS in them.

So far I haven't had any problems BUT since you mentioned that AD has a heavy DHEAS hand in most of their products I do recall the week I was testing my new AD products exclusively there were 2 days I specifically remember being tired, not sick, but not my peppy self, which I recall thinking even then that it was unusual. I had loaded up on b complex, d & c vits thinking I might be catching someone's cold but fortunately nothing came of it.

I'm always juggling my blends from one day to the next. Just seemed the thing to do so your info is very helpful. I just ordered DHEAS from AD in a single @ 20mcg per drop and I want to be thoughtful about dosage. I'm rarely sick and aside from the occasional blend giving me an allergy like runny nose here and there when I first apply, I haven't experienced anything adverse. I'd like to keep it that way after reading what you shared.

Thanks bunches!

(12-23-2012 7:34 PM)NuTrix Wrote:  But, back on topic...
You had mentioned above that ~+25mcg is a high dose and that long term use seemed to take its toll on your health/immune system. Do you recall, are you talking days or weeks?

50mcg in a day on clothes will make a minor dent in me. As long as I'm not already sick and don't touch the stuff, I'll recover. A week or two, maybe, or more of long-term exposure and I'll be feeling under the weather.

More significantly, I don't get self effects from DHEAS anymore. If DHEAS is involved in immune system proliferation and higher doses desensitizes a person then I'm wondering what the impact of that will be, not just in the short but the long term.

This is weird to relate, but there's a part of my cheek that I used to chew on sometimes when I was a little kid. When I'm exposed to mold or some chemicals I can feel a slight ridge there the next day for a day or two or three. It doesn't bother me any in-and-of itself, but I worry about it as a signifier for something else.

Given how little info we have to work with, a little paranoia seems appropriate.

Other mones have other impacts several days after. Desensitization to alpha androstenol might mean less responsive GABA receptors and poorer deep sleep. Which would lead to someone feeling tired, also. Maybe.

What's socially optimal may not be the same as the ideal dose if we need to consider long term self effects. Anyways, that's what I'm mulling.

Sorry to interrupt wiserd,

If you have a moment please see the following - Do you think people who produce abnormally high DHEA (not DHEAS) will have issues with certain mones? e.g. DHEA may tend to negate effects of androstenone?

Do you think people who produce low testosterone will tend to need more none?

Thank you.

(12-25-2012 5:35 PM)SS108 Wrote:  Sorry to interrupt wiserd,

If you have a moment please see the following - Do you think people who produce abnormally high DHEA (not DHEAS) will have issues with certain mones? e.g. DHEA may tend to negate effects of androstenone?

Do you think people who produce low testosterone will tend to need more none?

Thank you.

I'd guess that a person with high DHEA is likely to be younger and to have more androstadeinol (aka androstenediol) and testosterone output. In other words, a healthy person with high DHEA will more than compensate naturally for their high DHEA by boosting other sex hormones. There's some question in the linked article about whether oral supplementation of DHEA will have estrogenic effects in men and androgenic effects in women.

I haven't looked into that yet, but it seems worth noting if someone wanted to supplement orally with DHEA. (I don't and I wouldn't. I REALLY like being able to wash this stuff off after a few hours or remove the clothes that carry it and let they air out, to minimize health effects. But DHEA + an aromatase inhibitor (to prevent estrogen production) would probably kick up natural phero production for someone who wanted to go that route )

Quote:the biosynthesis of virtually all sex steroids proceeds through DHEA...DHEA is converted to androstenedione by the activity of 3a-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3a HSD) and then further converted to testosterone and estradiol by isoenzymes of 17a-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (17a-HSD) and P450 aromatase, respectively

http://www.endotext.org/aging/aging12/aging12.htm

(12-25-2012 6:55 PM)wiserd Wrote:  I'd guess that a person with high DHEA is likely to be younger and to have more androstadeinol (aka androstenediol) and testosterone output. In other words, a healthy person with high DHEA will more than compensate naturally for their high DHEA by boosting other sex hormones. There's some question in the linked article about whether oral supplementation of DHEA will have estrogenic effects in men and androgenic effects in women.

I haven't looked into that yet, but it seems worth noting if someone wanted to supplement orally with DHEA. (I don't and I wouldn't. I REALLY like being able to wash this stuff off after a few hours or remove the clothes that carry it and let they air out, to minimize health effects. But DHEA + an aromatase inhibitor (to prevent estrogen production) would probably kick up natural phero production for someone who wanted to go that route )

Quote:the biosynthesis of virtually all sex steroids proceeds through DHEA...DHEA is converted to androstenedione by the activity of 3a-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3a HSD) and then further converted to testosterone and estradiol by isoenzymes of 17a-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (17a-HSD) and P450 aromatase, respectively

http://www.endotext.org/aging/aging12/aging12.htm

Thank you for this. I should not have written so cryptically before, I actually have incredibly high levels of DHEA (reason unknown) but have a very low serum testosterone level (Low 200's). (My age is mid thirties). Estrogen is mid normal. However FSH and LH as you might expect are low. My cortisol tends to run high normal. Been to many docs, as you by now might surmise.

I've used nolva and clomid before with some success, however at this juncture I am very hesitant to raise my testosterone levels due to a potentially serious health issue which could arise from higher T and/or higher estrogen levels. Hope this makes sense.

I'm just wondering if I am in a somewhat unique situation regarding mone usage, as I believe high DHEA tends to negate none- I could be dead wrong of course.

Please let me know what you think when you have time. Thanks again.

DHEA is a great buffering pheromone that enhances or amplifies the effects of androstenol, androstenone, androstenetrione among others pheromones.

That is nice having this information of your hormone levels readily available as you may be able to get away with wearing more or less pheromones

(12-25-2012 7:43 PM)SS108 Wrote:  Thank you for this. I should not have written so cryptically before, I actually have incredibly high levels of DHEA (reason unknown) but have a very low serum testosterone level (Low 200's). (My age is mid thirties). Estrogen is mid normal. However FSH and LH as you might expect are low. My cortisol tends to run high normal. Been to many docs, as you by now might surmise.

I've used nolva and clomid before with some success, however at this juncture I am very hesitant to raise my testosterone levels due to a potentially serious health issue which could arise from higher T and/or higher estrogen levels. Hope this makes sense.

I'm just wondering if I am in a somewhat unique situation regarding mone usage, as I believe high DHEA tends to negate none- I could be dead wrong of course.

Please let me know what you think when you have time. Thanks again.

Hmm.. Interesting.

Okay, I still have only half the picture here. Forgive me for prying.

1. You don't state your sex or your intentions. If you prefer to discuss this via private message or email, that's cool. Click on my username.

2. Do you know your DHT levels and SHBG levels? I'm asking to try and figure out if you're over-converting T to DHT, likely because your body is trying to compensate for some kind of metabolic issue. Chronically high cortisol might contribute to such a condition since it tends to block the activity of insulin. Are you being treated for any metabolic/endocrinological conditions? Is anyone else in your family diagnosed or being treated for those or for depression? If they weren't being treated, do they have enough contact with the healthcare system to get a good diagnosis if they did have a health issue?

3. Long story short, you do sound like you're in an unusual position that might be compensated for with a different mix of mones, regardless of gender. Your natural profile is likely going to be more than just "too much DHEA." It really isn't hard to get enough Androstenone to compensate for high DHEA, though. Androstenone is potent. The issue I have with the stuff is that those higher levels of Androstenone that you might need will stink something horrible to some people and will need a good cover scent.

wow all this shit just highlights the the fact that I need to go get a hormone level check done

damn there was a link somewhere around here about low DHEA and depression and artistic ability and something else like trauma ....hmmm need to bookmark more stuff BEFORE my browser crashes....
or open 50 less tabs lol

(12-25-2012 9:32 PM)wiserd Wrote:  Hmm.. Interesting.

Okay, I still have only half the picture here. Forgive me for prying.

1. You don't state your sex or your intentions. If you prefer to discuss this via private message or email, that's cool. Click on my username.

2. Do you know your DHT levels and SHBG levels? I'm asking to try and figure out if you're over-converting T to DHT, likely because your body is trying to compensate for some kind of metabolic issue. Chronically high cortisol might contribute to such a condition since it tends to block the activity of insulin. Are you being treated for any metabolic/endocrinological conditions? Is anyone else in your family diagnosed or being treated for those or for depression? If they weren't being treated, do they have enough contact with the healthcare system to get a good diagnosis if they did have a health issue?

3. Long story short, you do sound like you're in an unusual position that might be compensated for with a different mix of mones, regardless of gender. Your natural profile is likely going to be more than just "too much DHEA." It really isn't hard to get enough Androstenone to compensate for high DHEA, though. Androstenone is potent. The issue I have with the stuff is that those higher levels of Androstenone that you might need will stink something horrible to some people and will need a good cover scent.

You should have a PM (2 actually)

Research showing DHEA-S helped in preventing brain injury caused by HIV/AIDS.

http://www.fasebj.org/content/27/2/725.abstract