Bump!
Anything further in your explorations dbot?

(12-20-2012 5:06 PM)NuTrix Wrote:  Bump!
Anything further in your explorations dbot?

Hey NuTrix, Dbot had a falling out with Mark and PheroTruth a while back and doesn't post here any more. All the drama in this place is a bit of a pity.

For what it's worth, here's my 2c on DHEAS;

1. High doses (~+25mcg) can inspire arousal without intimidation in some men and women, provided a reasonable length of exposure. I have no idea what individual characteristics or bodily states determine if this happens or not.

2. Long term usage of high-dose DHEAS takes its toll on my health and don't seem good for my immune system. High doses generally should not be applied to skin. They can be absorbed or can cause rashes in some areas. High doses day after day may lead to tolerance, as with most stuff.

3. DHEAS seems to be a bit of an Androstenone buffer, taking a slight edge off its effect.

4. DHEAS is an anti-GABAergic, meaning that it is an anti-depressant/anti-sedative in the sense that alcohol is a depressant. (I.E. Alcohol is a depressant because it slows down part of your brain, NOT because it makes you sad.) In this capacity, it may _slightly_ reduce the punch of alpha androstenol, though they are still used together to very good effect in many mixes.

5. DHEAS is one of the more heat-sensitive/fragile mones, and it degrades to DHEA, losing its sulfate group.

6. Most Alpha Dream products have a heavy dose of DHEAS.

7. Some people describe visual effects with DHEAS, but I've never gotten that.

Fantastic post! Thanks for the update/lesson. I just ordered some singles from AD's Christmas sale and there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of info out here...pinned down to one spot, lol.

Your comment about it reducing a-nol's punch slightly surprised me because they are in so many blends together.

When you mention that it takes a slight edge off androstenone, how do you mean? As in it softens the dominant vibe making someone seem alpha but approachable? (which could explain why it's in a lot of blends together)

Thanks SO much for sharing!!!

(12-21-2012 5:19 PM)NuTrix Wrote:  Fantastic post! Thanks for the update/lesson. I just ordered some singles from AD's Christmas sale and there just doesn't seem to be a whole lot of info out here...pinned down to one spot, lol.

Your comment about it reducing a-nol's punch slightly surprised me because they are in so many blends together.

When you mention that it takes a slight edge off androstenone, how do you mean? As in it softens the dominant vibe making someone seem alpha but approachable? (which could explain why it's in a lot of blends together)

Thanks SO much for sharing!!!

You're welcome. :-)

I have a hard time pinning down the exact interaction between Androstenone and molecules like DHEAS but let me give you a partial response and maybe some other folks can chime in.

A small dose of DHEAS just made it seem to me like there was less Androstenone in a particular mix (way back when I was testing Androstenone in the ~.1-5 mcg range) but it didn't eliminate the bad smell of Androstenone and I didn't have a good cover scent at the time. So I didn't like it. The mix just didn't seem to hit as hard with DHEAS in it, at least on first exposure. At the time I was testing this interaction, I was a newb and I was only looking at things like hair flips and really obvious first-response changes in body language. Probably, the DHEAS was reducing some kind of stress response. Whatever long term effects Androstenone has, I would have missed them.

DHEAS took a while to work, so for a long time I wrote it off as useless. It's not. It's obviously nice stuff. It just needs to be given time.

(12-21-2012 5:57 PM)wiserd Wrote:  At the time I was testing this interaction, I was a newb and I was only looking at things like hair flips and really obvious first-response changes in body language. .

so what are you looking for now?

sorry to be Mr. Off Topic

(12-22-2012 3:49 AM)John Schlongfellow Wrote:  so what are you looking for now?

sorry to be Mr. Off Topic

That's a great question worthy of several good books, one of which I'd really hoped the community could have written collaboratively on the "testing pheromones" portion of the wiki.

Apparently wiki editing scares people who would otherwise write volumes.

I was really looking forward to hearing people discuss the significance of things like a girl playing with her necklace. Women say it indicates anxiety only, men often say it indicates interest. I was wondering if men or women had the better understanding of female psychology.

But a few things that were non-obvious to me;

1. How people respond the next day is often informative. You get to see how they interpret things given a bit of time to think, which may be different than their initial response.

2. Look for constellations of gestures. If someone is crossing their legs, I don't know what that means. but if their chest is red and they're blushing and they just put their hair up or down and crossed their legs AND they're playing with the ring on their finger...

3. Self effects are more sensitive than body language. If something makes the neon lights really interesting at night, it's probably a visual brightener. That doesn't correspond to any kind of body language on the part of the other person, though, that I'm aware of. (Maybe dilated pupils, but that's so hard to gauge from a distance. And maybe it's already dark, and their pupils are already dilated...)

I'm still working this out, but I think the visual brighteners may be serotonergic in their action and reduce fear of social rejection. I'm not CERTAIN of that, though... just a working theory.

Great post as always, wiserd.

Playing with jewelry is a form of showing how groomed you are, or so I've read.

I believe everything that is being touched is being called attention to. Same way I've had a hit once where the girl would rest her hand on my thigh and soon after, slide her hand over her thigh, like showing me what I was supposed to do. (Touch her thigh).

It's also easier to look for IOIs if you look for the root cause, not the reflection/surface effect. For example:

Differently from a hair twirl, who can indicate the need of being groomed or the desire for intimacy, a hair flip (reflection) is actually done to show off the neck of a girl, which means submission. She is showing the most vulnerable part of her body to you. Men, on the other hand, when feel threatened, will do the chin tuck, hiding their throat with the chin. Recently I've had a girl tying her hair "for me", letting her whole neck for show. If I had been looking for a hair flip only, instead of the root cause, I wouldn't have seen this hit.

Another example, the same girl would often stretch herself on the chair she was sitting on, which in my view means she was trying to show me her body, or at least calling my attention to her waist line (root) which is sometimes reflected as holding her waist with both hands. That's to tighten the clothes she's wearing so she appears more "curvy". Some of you may know that the right waist/hip ratio means fertility.

And you are right, always look for clusters of IOIs, not individual ones. As a rule of thumb, I act only on clusters of 3 IOIs or more.

*comes out of cave* woah dbot gone?:girl_cray2:that sucks.

on topic, good finds, it explains a lot. i pushed myself hard one week wearing,nah drowning myself to see it od. got sick . good to know why i did.

thanks guys!

(12-22-2012 11:28 AM)wiserd Wrote:  2. Look for constellations of gestures. If someone is crossing their legs, I don't know what that means. but if their chest is red and they're blushing and they just put their hair up or down and crossed their legs AND they're playing with the ring on their finger...

Hold the phone!
I've done this often...out with girlfriends...girl's night, no prowling for gentlemen, no gentlemen in the group...ok, ok, maybe in the conversation, as in about them...I'm married and almost always thinking naughty things and/or saying them....
My point is I'll blush at my own naughty thoughts...or the wine is making me flush, fidget in my seat (cross & uncross legs), hair flip & twirl...play with ring or other jewelry (I like shiny things - I have ADOS; attention deficit Ooh Shiny!) and all this time I am in no way inviting my girlfriends to hit on me or make their move, lol. But it could all be a great indicator that a woman is comfortable with you and enjoying your company. As for me, I'm just having a good time ^_~

(12-23-2012 8:22 AM)NuTrix Wrote:  Hold the phone!
I've done this often...out with girlfriends...girl's night, no prowling for gentlemen, no gentlemen in the group...ok, ok, maybe in the conversation, as in about them...I'm married and almost always thinking naughty things and/or saying them....
My point is I'll blush at my own naughty thoughts...or the wine is making me flush, fidget in my seat (cross & uncross legs), hair flip & twirl...play with ring or other jewelry (I like shiny things - I have ADOS; attention deficit Ooh Shiny!) and all this time I am in no way inviting my girlfriends to hit on me or make their move, lol. But it could all be a great indicator that a woman is comfortable with you and enjoying your company. As for me, I'm just having a good time ^_~

Oh, I agree. "Interest" is not the same as sexual desire for women, and a lot of men conflate the two things. (Wishful thinking?) Women often use 'flirting gestures' on other women to express 'interest,' even absent sexual desire.

Also, sexual desire is not the same as a willingness to act on sexual desire.