OR

Above, Eurycomanone; one of several active ingredients in Longjack.

Herbal extracts of Longjack have a solid reputation both in the bedroom as well as in the gym. I figured I'd give this stuff a spin as a pheromone. The results so far have been very promising.

I used purebulk's "100:1" extract for my experiments, which is supposedly a 100 fold concentrated extract of the pure root. I don't put much stock in that number, since the extract isn't standardized for any particular active ingredient, but I'm not complaining about the results.

I diluted the powder in EtOH (vodka) and strained through a coffee filter, then diluted the mix down to 1mcg of extract/drop. Beneficial unbuffered applications tended to be in the range of 10mcg or so, with 40mcg of unbuffered molecule being an overdose causing stiffness in some strangers. 40 mcg or much much higher doses would probably be good in other situations (more comfortable environment, night use, etc.) or if actually buffered with more relaxing molecules like alpha androstenol. But I had to start somewhere.

Benefits have included mood elevation (self, even at several hundred mcgs), increased respect from others, blushing in surrounding females and increased sex-related compliments and sex drive from the wife.

A little background on what we're working with;

The whole herb contains a range of chemicals , ( some of the most relevant being eurycomanone, and 13α(21)-dihydroeurycomaone, and 9-hydroxycanthin-6-one)

with a host of medicinal effects including

1. The herb's strong anti-estrogenic effects (comparable to the anti-cancer drug tamoxifen)

2. Its up-regulation of lutenizing hormone, which, in turn upregulates testosterone. This increases testicular size and spermatogenesis and is often used by body builders as part of a cycle. The effect of oral administration in rats may require as many as 100 days to wear off completely.

3. Rapid metabolic destruction of the herb if taken orally.
"The results indicate that eurycomanone is poorly bioavailable when given orally… the absolute bioavailability of the compound was low with 10.5%… its poor oral bioavailability may be due to poor membrane permeability in view of its low P value and/or high first-pass metabolism."[18]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16206032

4. Anti cancer and anti-viral effects. One mechanism (upregulation of p53) is similar to that of resveratrol (a chemical in red wine, peanuts, and japanese knotweed.)

5.

Quote:Eurycoma can also increase sperm production and may directly act as a proerectile agent. At least one molecule in Eurycoma (9-hydroxycanthin-6-one) is associated with both a delay in ejaculation as well as pro-erectile properties (although the ability of this molecule to act via consuming Eurycoma extract is not known).

Further reading;
Chemical Properties of eurycomanone: http://www.chemicalbook.com/ChemicalProd...189926.htm

More chemical propertiesof eurycomanone: http://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/summary/...id=3069398

I haven't found melting point yet, which would give us the best idea of how fast this stuff diffuses, but molecular weight of eurycomanone is 408.39916 g/mol compared to 272.42502g/mol for androstenone.

Convenient wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_jack

so you say my 1/4 tsp into 25ml etoh was too much?
I don't want to but I'm going to break out the reloading scales and see what 1/4 tsp weighs. Then I can try and dilute to your rate.

I need to go check and see when I bought those scales and maybe open a PP dispute because HK is pissing me off.
I wanted to get this party started weeks ago..... maybe I'll wait till Chinese New Year to do it. Bet it'll be the first time I'm able to get a reply during New Years. (for those who don't buy from HK vendors, they basically shut down the country on new years)

I think this might be the next thing I give to Big Al for testing.
He's in college ....

(01-19-2013 1:23 PM)John Schlongfellow Wrote:  so you say my 1/4 tsp into 25ml etoh was too much?
I don't want to but I'm going to break out the reloading scales and see what 1/4 tsp weighs. Then I can try and dilute to your rate.

I need to go check and see when I bought those scales and maybe open a PP dispute because HK is pissing me off.
I wanted to get this party started weeks ago..... maybe I'll wait till Chinese New Year to do it. Bet it'll be the first time I'm able to get a reply during New Years. (for those who don't buy from HK vendors, they basically shut down the country on new years)

I think this might be the next thing I give to Big Al for testing.
He's in college ....

Yeah, well, androstenone worn solo would also be too much at a fairly low dose as well. It'd be interesting to see how high we can take this stuff if it's properly buffered or added to an existing mix.

But yeah, you'll have to do serial dilution to get down to microgram doses.

I'm also hopeful about the long term effects of this stuff, but that's so much harder to test.

Wow I have been taking this stuff orally for a while now just for a quick LH boost when I need it (i.e. going out, or after a workout when stressed). I do notice that I get more looks from women when I take it, I'm pretty sure it boosts my natural pheromone production with the LH increase.

The effects I get from taking 100-200 mg of this is the same feeling I get from sniffing my bottle of AM. I never expected it to work as a pheromone.

Also I've noticed that it's significantly more effective taken orally if I take a long break between uses. Your body builds up a tolerance to it very quickly. After taking some two days in a row I barely get any effects on the third day.

(01-19-2013 11:14 PM)Snipes Wrote:  Wow I have been taking this stuff orally for a while now just for a quick LH boost when I need it (i.e. going out, or after a workout when stressed). I do notice that I get more looks from women when I take it, I'm pretty sure it boosts my natural pheromone production with the LH increase.

The effects I get from taking 100-200 mg of this is the same feeling I get from sniffing my bottle of AM. I never expected it to work as a pheromone.

Also I've noticed that it's significantly more effective taken orally if I take a long break between uses. Your body builds up a tolerance to it very quickly. After taking some two days in a row I barely get any effects on the third day.

Thanks for the feedback. It sucks that tolerance develops so quickly. I wonder what the mechanism is for tolerance and whether a pheromonal application might extend the effects. Though your experience doesn't bode well on that count. Damn.

Tested a mix tonight at a party;
10 mcg alpha nol,
10mcg beta nol
10 mcg longjack extract
4mcg HTP

Mixed in about 3ml EtOH and used the spray over the course of the night.

This worked out to a nice interest-generating social. People listened to me when I talked and paid attention and would generally respond to any request I made, but weren't particularly inquisitive. That may have been the alpha nol at work. I didn't get any closed gestures, got attention and respect from those I talked to. One married woman, there with her husband, seemed to have taken an interest in me despite the fact I was there with my wife. I talked to them both a long while. She gave me a hug goodbye even though I've never seen her before and tried to get my facebook contact. I'm not really planning on contacting her, but it was an interesting result and pretty 'low effort' on my part.

(01-19-2013 11:29 PM)wiserd Wrote:  Thanks for the feedback. It sucks that tolerance develops so quickly. I wonder what the mechanism is for tolerance and whether a pheromonal application might extend the effects. Though your experience doesn't bode well on that count. Damn.

You can achieve the same effect as the previous days, but you will need a significantly higher dosage. If there is a better method of absorption to the blood other than ingestion I would be interested in hearing it, since the effects on yourself are great.

Also I don't think I emphasized in my post enough the effect that oral longjack has on your natural pheromone production. The last time I took a large dose of this stuff and just went about my day was before I discovered PT and realized the importance of pheromones. I challenge anybody who has this stuff to take a large dose (500+ mg) and tell me that you even need your spray-on pheromones that day. I remember taking this stuff and going to classes and getting pretty big eye contact and exaggeration (i.e. women in the row in front of me turning around and bending over showing a lot of cleavage, happened a few times) hits from it, but I never attributed it to increased pheromone production. Since the self effects from it are so huge, I'd simply assumed that they were attracted to how relaxed and masculine I was. You do feel very relaxed and masculine while taking it. It tastes really bad but it's gotten to the point where I've started to like the taste since I'm conditioned to recognize that very good feelings will follow whenever I feel it.

I am 21 years old by the way. I suspect that it will have an even greater effect on those who are older. Traditionally Tongkat Ali has been used by elderly Indonesian/Malaysian men for a libido booster/erection enhancer, so I'd assume it could make a 40 year old feel like he's 20 in terms of virility.

I'm seeing what you mean. I wore this stuff around my wife at the party last night. That night, she smelled like beta androsterone, which she never does. It's just about the only mone I can smell.

Wiserd, i like your approach testing something new like this and am interested in any other observations, self effects and doses you experience. Sounds tempting as a supplement too.

(Yesterday 1:26 AM)wiserd Wrote:  4mcg HTP

4 mcg HTP, do you mean 5-HTP?
I wonder if Chlorella would have any pheromone like effects, its got high content of many natural vitamins/amino acids/minerals/chlorophyll. Maybe i should dilute some in alcohol..

(Yesterday 2:51 PM)eibmoz Wrote:  Wiserd, i like your approach testing something new like this and am interested in any other observations, self effects and doses you experience. Sounds tempting as a supplement too.

4 mcg HTP, do you mean 5-HTP?
I wonder if Chlorella would have any pheromone like effects, its got high content of many natural vitamins/amino acids/minerals/chlorophyll. Maybe i should dilute some in alcohol..

Yeah, 5HTP. Sorry, didn't mean to abbreviate. If you want to give it a shot, I'd love to hear your results. Something like 40% of plants contain human-pheromone-like compounds in picogram quantities. I'm not sure that vitamins, amino acids or chlorophyll is what you're looking for in a potential pheromone, however. If you aren't sure how to prepare such a mix, let me know or check out the poor man's James Bond article on this site.