(12-20-2011 2:36 AM)as33156 Wrote:  When I was in the army we had these things called go pills they gave us to test. I could work nonstop for 48hrs but would get the worst shits afterwards. I decided to give them a pass as I didn't want to have to wear diapers to use them. I'm interested in some of the things you ladies and gents are discussing. Great thread sunny10. you got reps

Haha really interesting.

The army is fucked up.

So, I've been trying to get some of these working, like mones they are not a one fits all type of product, you need to spend time and money working out the best combos and dosages for yourself.

After two weeks trying pram, I got nothing. But according to the pherotruth website of nootropics, it may take a month before I notice anything, even though for some people they work in a few days.

A word of advice to anyone wanting to try any of these, read, read, read, read, read as much as you can from the longecity forums. Spend a few weeks collecting as much data as you can, you may end up using several products just to get an effect for one of the main nootropics.

I would say that the -racetams(piracetam, oxiracetam etc), a could be analogies of the alpha mones such as none, Androsterone etc.
The other things such as chlorine sources, DMAE, fish oil, L-somethings, etc could be the beta nols, etc the social mones.
For some people just taking either the alpha or the social gets them the results, but realistically for the rest of us, it is a careful calculated mix of both to get a good result. And a very expensive one at that.

here is another site where people log their experience with various drugs and supplements hope it helps

http://www.erowid.org/experiences/subs/e...etam.shtml

Just an update. Haven't been experimenting/testing with mones recently because intelligence boosting, energy, and motivation is my latest kick. I've found in the past when I focus on mones too much this other stuff drops off. And I need to get a new job right now anyway and that has to be my focus.

Here's what I'm currently doing, along a number of different fronts, and brain speed, attention, energy, focus, verbal fluency and the ability to articulate thoughts better, etc., have all been noticeable improvements:

(1) Intelligence program as3 turned me onto in a post. Some focus and meditation exercises (15-30min a day), as well as the brain harmonics. I bought nice Bose headphones for the mp3 brain harmonics.

(2) Nootropics. Been spending a lot more time over at some of the noot and intelligence forums than here. I'm currently taking a combination of: piracetam, aniracetam (targeted when needed), choline, huperzine-A, uridine, dha/epa, and a multivitamin. Caffeine and alcohol usage have dropped off considerably just naturally--I'm not as interested in them anymore/don't need caffeine. Feel focused and tuned-in, and have the ability to think faster and more clearly and without going into overdrive like an amphetamine feeling.

(3) Lumosity games and n-backing. Have been increasing up to 4-n-backs, but that is rather tough. Hope the working memory translates into greater gains.

(4) Sleep and circadian rhythm fine-tuning. Have light-therapy device that I've been using for five weeks now that has helped considerably with sluggishness and tiredness, and makes it easier to sleep at night. Just this week got a Zeo sleep coach, which gives you a rough measure of your brainwaves while sleeping with a sensor you strap on your head. Maximizing REM sleep helps solidify memory and new learning and maximizing deep sleep helps with muscle repair. Right now I need to bump both of these areas up by about 10% of total sleep.

A few more side effects/benefits that I've noticed. General anxiety decrease, much more calm. Too much racetam dosing (above 2g) will keep you up and make it hard to sleep. Also I've dropped a few pounds (6'1", had been 174, now about 172) probably by not being as focused on eating as much I was. Don't have to worry about it so much when on racetams.

Anyways, thanks to as3, NewAlpha, dbot, pago, L.Lawliet for their knowledge and recommendations. I'll post more on this when I'm able, and see what I can do on mones when I get a chance.

One more thing from today's WSJ on the mutability of intelligence. Only about a quarter of one's intelligence is genetically predetermined: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424...72642.html
(here's the link to the article in Nature: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vao...0781.html)

excerpts:

"Nearly a quarter of the changes often seen in a person's intelligence level over the course of a lifetime may be due to genes, a proportion never before estimated, new research shows.

The study suggests that genes may partly explain why some people's brains age better than others, even though environmental factors likely play a greater role over a lifetime.

. . . .

The new study, published in the journal Nature, offers one of the first estimates of how much genes and the environment contribute to fluctuations in a person's intelligence between adolescence and old age. It found that genetic differences account for 24% of the variation.

. . . .

DNA and IQ

How scientists discovered that almost one-quarter of the change in intelligence over a lifetime is due to genes:

Scientists found decades-old intelligence tests done on 1,940 11-year-olds in Scotland, and then retested the participants at age 65 and above.
DNA from blood samples was collected from all 1,940 people.
An analysis of half a million genetic markers in the participants revealed various genetic similarities.
Scientists compared these genetic similarities with the participants' intelligence levels in both youth and old age.
The study concluded 24% of the life-span changes in intelligence could be linked to genes, the rest to environmental factors.

. . . .

Scientists elsewhere have determined that a person's intelligence level as measured by an IQ test isn't fixed at birth. Instead, a person's IQ can rise or fall as the person ages. One recent brain-scanning study found that a teenager's IQ can increase or decline by as many as 20 points in just a few years.

There also has been progress in figuring out which environmental factors may affect intelligence. For example, experiments have shown that IQ scores can change after just a few weeks of cognitive training, though the increases are small and tend to fade after a few months.

Meantime, a three-decade study done at the U.S. National Institute of Mental Health found that people whose jobs involved setting up elaborate systems or dealing with tough or complex relationships tended to do better over time on cognitive tests.

Schooling also has been shown to boost IQ, while music lessons have been associated with higher IQ throughout life. And brain-imaging studies have found that circus jugglers and London cab drivers who use maps can show brain changes linked to practice. . . . ."

An interesting story from a few months ago in the New York Times--Can You Make Yourself Smarter?: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/magazi...wanted=all

IQ is just used to refer to the first principal component in measures of ability. Unfortunately, things that may boost your measured test scores may not be as all-around useful as you would expect based upon the increase in score. What matters is how your interventions or practices boost the particular things you want to get better at.

Piracetam and CoQ10/Acetyl-L-Carnitine supplementation definitely seem to help thinking. Modafinil is more effective than caffeine when you need to perform, but you probably do not want to take it regularly.

Looking at it another way IQ scores have been rising for a long time (termed the Flynn effect), but it seems rather obvious reading the works of long-dead popular authors that we are not getting brighter. There is a case to be made that the contrary is true. One might then differentiate between genotypic and phenotypic IQ, with the former having declined since 1870, in spite of the spectacular increases in the latter.