These are all great ideas that need more deliberation. I especially like the random selection from a list of desirable putatives.

I don't have much time to write as I'm getting ready for brunch, but my current thought is that everything we do with this project should aim to give the most possible benefit to all involved, while still remaining as open as possible.

Getting more users involved with using these molecules benefits us all, since we get more reports to read and it incentivizes their production and sale. So I wouldn't want to keep them secret. It would be nice if there was some reward for being a contributor, but it seems like all the regulars want in anyway, and others would be unlikely to contribute even if offered an incentive. So, I'm not sure we need to make things complicated.

1. Everyone gets to know what the putative is.
Just because I have the name, won’t tell me what or where to order said putative. Has anyone looked at these places that sell makes this stuff? There are so many variations in putative that no way knowing the name means you will order the exact same putative being tested. Only people who participated, gets to know the exact chemical name of putative and from what company. I for one, know that if Chris has said putative, makes him the go to man.

2. People that participated gets said putative at a special price,
This is Chris department if he’s the man doing the foot work, I have a lawn service and I don’t cut for free.

That it, no secret forum,
Knowledge is power

My 2 cents:

Pay a nominal fee ($5?) to access the locked participants-only part of the forum.

Those who pay to get in can then vote on which P will be tested.

A cut-off date is announced for any and all to pay to get in.

When the cut-off date arrives, the cost of the procedure is divided among the confirmed participants and each participant then Paypals his money in.

Those who pay should keep the chemical name "secret" for as long as possible, thereby increasing participation and reducing the cost per participant in the next round.

Eventually the secret will leak out, but it should be kept among the participants for as long as possible.

I don't like the random idea or the idea of immediately releasing the chemical name to the whole world. The people who pay should decide what gets tested and they should be the only ones who receive the chemical name once the test is complete.

Kmacc you are contradicting yourself:

"Everyone gets to know what the putative is."

and

"Only people who participated, gets to know the exact chemical name of putative..."

If there is no incentive to pay, fewer people will participate which will drive up the cost for those who do. Why should I chip in if the chemical name will be released to everyone?

Buying the powder after the chemical name is known is a separate issue from deciding how the analysis is ran. I don't see the point of connecting these two issues.

The only way to incentivize the analysis is to keep the information among the participants so that more people participate in future projects. Eventually, that information will all leak out to the world.

Yea, I think whilst it would be ideal to have the all the information open and free as is the aim of the forum it would be unfair to have a few pay whilst the rest simply sat back and gained the same without commitment.

As for the order in which we test two possible senarios:

- We test as many as possible and everyone shoulders the cost regardless of whether they want that molecule tested or not for the greater good of research

- People only pay into the molecules they want. Which inevitably means some won't get tested.

I will let mark work on the dynamics of the forum contributions on his end - but I think it might be possible to partially subsidize the cost of the analysis. It really depends on how much the analysis cost and how much the forum can raise. Also it depends on the economic feasibility of offering the compounds (once they are discovered) affordably to members, and being able to make a profit. ::shrug:: We will have to see how it all works out, time will tell

Business at alpha dream has been a little bit slow lately but I will try to do my best to help with funding the analysis.

Chris, personally I'd rather see you not subsidize the program, but instead offer the molecules at cost, or at least a reduced cost to those that do fund it, for maybe a year or so.

And maybe mark the prices up a bit higher than normal for anyone that didn't contribute, and use the additional profit to fund future programs.

But that's just my 2 cents.

I agree with that. I don't think it's a good idea for another company to subsidize this project.

Is there any guess about how many participants might be in the first run? Is it close to 5 or close to 25?

I kind of feel like we should avoid getting too big for our britches and try this out with just one molecule and see how it goes. We take a vote on which molecule, whoever wants to chips in, and the information is free. Then we can evaluate our method and plan based on experience.

(05-22-2011 10:33 PM)dbot Wrote:  I kind of feel like we should avoid getting too big for our britches and try this out with just one molecule and see how it goes. We take a vote on which molecule, whoever wants to chips in, and the information is free. Then we can evaluate our method and plan based on experience.

Thanks for this dbot. It seems to relieve the pressure on me. I don't want to get everyone too exited until we prove this analysis method works. Let's try it with one molecule first, and go from there. We can have a vote on which one goes first out of the available putatives that I have on hand. I vote TAA or TAC.

P.S. I'm going to talk to the guys at steraloids tomorrow.