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Eliminating A-1 Depression
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NP17
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Post: #1
Eliminating A-1 Depression
11-06-2015 10:44 AM

I've been pushing this in other threads, but I thought I'd start a new one because I see this issue coming up so consistently.

I think that 7-keto DHEA can increase Androstadienone tolerance significantly. I get depression with 1 drop of GoA, more severe at 2 drops. When I was taking 7-keto, I could use 2-3 drops for multiple days straight without any side effects. I was taking quite a bit, though.

Also, RTBoss posted this:

Quote:I'm back to taking DHEA (25mg) and 7-keto (200 mg) per day in the morning, and all reactions to A-1 in a negative manner have once again disappeared for me.

200 mg is quite a bit and may not be economical for daily use by everyone, unless RTBoss can suggest a good source. Though bodybuilders sometimes use multiple grams of the stuff to boost their metabolism and get cut.

I just thought that the community would be interested in this.
11-06-2015 10:44 AM
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Post: #2
RE: Eliminating A-1 Depression
11-06-2015 10:56 AM

7-keto dhea is reportedly dangerous. If I remember right it's banned in my country. Keep a lookout for any side effects buddy.

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11-06-2015 10:56 AM
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Post: #3
RE: Eliminating A-1 Depression
11-06-2015 11:08 AM

(11-06-2015 10:44 AM)NP17 Wrote:  I've been pushing this in other threads, but I thought I'd start a new one because I see this issue coming up so consistently.

I think that 7-keto DHEA can increase Androstadienone tolerance significantly. I get depression with 1 drop of GoA, more severe at 2 drops. When I was taking 7-keto, I could use 2-3 drops for multiple days straight without any side effects. I was taking quite a bit, though.

Also, RTBoss posted this:


200 mg is quite a bit and may not be economical for daily use by everyone, unless RTBoss can suggest a good source. Though bodybuilders sometimes use multiple grams of the stuff to boost their metabolism and get cut.

I just thought that the community would be interested in this.

Where did you buy it from (post link) and did you break out in zits?

Did it eliminate lethargy or just depression? I don't get depression much from AM or L2k v1.. But I do get terrible lethargy from l2k v1 in subsequent days.. Sometimes the lethargy doesn't hit till 2 days later!!!

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(This post was last modified: 11-06-2015 11:09 AM by dsouza.)
11-06-2015 11:08 AM
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Post: #4
RE: Eliminating A-1 Depression
11-06-2015 11:16 AM

(11-06-2015 11:08 AM)dsouza Wrote:  Where did you buy it from (post link) and did you break out in zits?

Did it eliminate lethargy or just depression? I don't get depression much from AM or L2k v1.. But I do get terrible lethargy from l2k v1 in subsequent days.. Sometimes the lethargy doesn't hit till 2 days later!!!

I think I used this one. It was a while ago.

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/enzymatic...jzfsLerTIU

I see now on the vitamin shoppe website that you can get 100 mg tablets for pretty cheap.

http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/jarrow-fo...es/jf-1034

I did not get acne, but I have gotten that in the past from DHEA and pregnenolone.

I consider lethargy a different manifestation of A-1 depression, so yes it eliminated the lethargy for me.

As for side effects, it would be best to scale up your dose to see how much you need and not take it every day if you don't have to.

Also, this website is interesting:

http://www.raysahelian.com/7-ketodhea.html

Dr. Ray Sahelian warns about the side effects of hormones. Here's a counter-argument he posted on his website:

Quote:Q. As an adjunct instructor of nutrition and head of technical services for a private label supplement manufacturer I read a lot of company's information as well as numerous scientific journals. I was on your site, which I enjoy very much as you always have good science-based information, and noticed some negative comments made about the use of 7-keto. I'm confident based on the extensive research of Henry Lardy, PhD Professor Emeritus Biochemistry, University of Wisconsin, Madison of the safety of 7-keto. He and others have published numerous studies demonstrating its safety and efficacy. Some of the subjective information provided on your website cannot serve as a basis for a decision on whether or not to use it. One study that I can give you the reference for demonstrates the safety of 7-keto (I have an extensive list of other studies). I hope you get a chance to review Dr. Henry Lardy's work and others.
I would like to respond to the statement from your website regarding 7-oxo DHEA (7-Keto). The combination of my graduate studies in nutrition, undergraduate studies in biology and chemistry and working in the nutraceutical industry has offered me the opportunity to meet and or speak with numerous researchers in various fields. I would like to share with you some of the published research on 7-oxo-DHEA, and hope to convince you of the safety and efficacy of this compound. There is nobody more qualified, in my mind, to speak on anything related to DHEA then Dr. Henry Lardy, Professor Emeritus, Institute for Enzyme Research, Department of Biochemistry, University of Wisconsin, Madison. As I’m sure you already know, the University of Wisconsin Madison has several researchers, both present and former, who have made major contributions to the fields of nutrition and biochemistry i.e. Michael Pariza, CLA research, Hector Deluca, vitamin D, James Ntambi, fatty acid biochemistry to name a few. With regard to your statement that “if 7 Keto DHEA has testosterone like benefits, it is likely that certain 7-keto DHEA side effects will be due to androgen excess”. Dr. Lardy and others have repeatedly shown that 7-Keto is a metabolite of and not a precursor to, either estrogen or testosterone. The positive metabolic effects reported for 7-oxo DHEA (7-Keto) are due to its ability to influence thermogenic enzymes i.e. malic enzyme to a greater extent than DHEA (without increasing testosterone and estrogen). 7-oxo DHEA (7-Keto) has been shown to be safe and effective in individuals (both healthy and overweight) at a dose of 200 mg/day.

Safety and pharmacokinetic study with escalating doses of 3-acetyl-7-oxo-dehydroepiandrosterone in healthy male volunteers.
Clin Invest Med. 2000
Twenty-two healthy men received placebo or 3-acetyl-7-oxo-DHEA at 50 mg/d for 7 days followed by a 7-day washout; 100 mg/d for 7 days followed by a 7-day washout; and 200 mg/d for 28 days. Safety parameters, evaluated at each dose level, included measurement of total testosterone, free testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, estradiol, cortisol, thyroxin and insulin levels. Analyses for 7-oxo-DHEA-3beta-sulfate (DHEA-S), the only detectable metabolic product of the administered steroid, were conducted on plasma drawn from all subjects. The administered steroid was not detected in the blood but was rapidly converted to 7-oxo-DHEA-S, the concentrations of which were proportional to dose. This steroid sulfate did not accumulate. The mean time to peak plasma level of 7-oxo-DHEA-S was 2 hours; the mean half life was 2 hours.

A. [by Dr. Ray Sahelian - NP17] Over decades of review of nutritional studies I have come to realize the significant shortcomings that occur in safety studies due to several possible factors: The researchers did not look specifically for certain side effects, the patients did not report them, the researcher was supported by the company whose product is being tested and hence positive results are promoted and negative outcomes minimized (this occurs more often than people realize). For instance studies with DHEA rarely mention hair loss or heart rhythm disturbances but this occurs quite frequently among users. I find that the best way to evaluate the benefits and side effects of medications and nutritional supplements is to review the published research, take account my own experiences and feedback from patients, and read the emails I get from people who have used these products. Relying on studies alone does not provide the full picture.
11-06-2015 11:16 AM
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Post: #5
RE: Eliminating A-1 Depression
11-06-2015 11:22 AM

(11-06-2015 10:56 AM)raikahoken Wrote:  7-keto dhea is reportedly dangerous. If I remember right it's banned in my country. Keep a lookout for any side effects buddy.

Dangerous? The worst I've heard of 7-Keto is that it may cause headaches in excess doses. Sounds more like medical propaganda to me. What have you heard?

@dsouza

7-Keto lacks the hormonal effects of DHEA. If acne occurs, it's no more than a placebo effect, or something else is responsible.
11-06-2015 11:22 AM
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Post: #6
RE: Eliminating A-1 Depression
11-06-2015 11:26 AM

Also, I did not come up with this on my own. The credit goes to this old post:

http://pherotruth.org/Thread-Cure-for-an...depression
11-06-2015 11:26 AM
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Post: #7
RE: Eliminating A-1 Depression
11-06-2015 12:17 PM

(11-06-2015 11:22 AM)Ekscentra Wrote:  Dangerous? The worst I've heard of 7-Keto is that it may cause headaches in excess doses. Sounds more like medical propaganda to me. What have you heard?

@dsouza

7-Keto lacks the hormonal effects of DHEA. If acne occurs, it's no more than a placebo effect, or something else is responsible.

Will it work alongside Androgel? Remember I'm not producing natural test -- test coming from outside source (gel)

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11-06-2015 12:17 PM
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Post: #8
RE: Eliminating A-1 Depression
11-06-2015 2:46 PM

No acne - well, no more than I already had. I'm a greasy dago, bacne is here to stay, sideLol.

Here's the cheapest source I've found for 7-Keto: 240 caps @ 100 mg/cap or 4,800 mg for $42.99. Body First 7-Keto.

Also, Dsouza, I don't get lethargy. Could be all the caffeine I'm always hopped up on!


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(This post was last modified: 11-06-2015 2:50 PM by RTBoss.)
11-06-2015 2:46 PM
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Post: #9
RE: Eliminating A-1 Depression
11-06-2015 3:08 PM

Just placed my order from the Vitamin shop listed in NP17's posting above.
http://www.vitaminshoppe.com/p/jarrow-fo...es/jf-1034

Ordered several bottles of 100 mg dose.

Sorry RTBoss I ordered before you made your post !

Oh well all is good.. I am on the 7 keto dhea bandwagon now!

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(This post was last modified: 11-06-2015 3:09 PM by dsouza.)
11-06-2015 3:08 PM
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Post: #10
RE: Eliminating A-1 Depression
11-06-2015 3:09 PM

(11-06-2015 12:17 PM)dsouza Wrote:  Will it work alongside Androgel? Remember I'm not producing natural test -- test coming from outside source (gel)
I imagine you'll be fine using both. 7-Keto has no dangerous interactions I'm aware of, and Androgel wouldn't be one of them.
11-06-2015 3:09 PM
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